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  1. #1
    Cyclone42
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    Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    I just think the continuing economic embargo on Cuba is a complete anachronism. There really is no real reason it should continue to exist, other than political inertia. (We continue to do something simply because we've always done it, and not because it makes any sense to do it)

    Cuba is a communist state, but so what? So are Vietnam and China, and we don't put economic sanctions on them. I think the real issue in today's world, the determining factor in whether or not we put economic sanctions on a country, is terrorism. Since Cuba does not really harbor terrorists nor encourage terrorism, economic sanctions don't make sense.

    I think if we dropped the sanctions on Cuba tomorrow, the remains of that communist government would be over inside of a month.

    What got me thinking about this is the following article I found on the World Herald site:

    Omaha.com Metro/Region Section

    I mean, Cuban cigars? He's going to prison over Cuban cigars? It's not like he imported cocaine! The last time I checked, tobacco products are still completely legal. And nobody was harmed by what he did. It's not like he murdered somebody or molested somebody's child.



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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    The embargo lasts until Fidel and Raul are dead. Dead like Che. Dead like those communist bastards deserve. The American left has a man-crush on both Fidel and Che, that is why they think the embargo should be ended. Fidel let the Soviet Union put nuclear weapons aimed at the US on his country's soil. This is why the embargo continues. Actions have consequences in this world. Fidel chose poorly, and as long as he is in power and the people don't have the guts to rise up against him, they deserve for the embargo by the US to continue.

    Not a whole lot of things get me worked up in this world, but you start in on global warming, taxation policies, gun control or communists and it is go time. Sorry if this offends some people at times, as I do tend to go overboard to sometimes make a point.

    I like Cuban cigars too, but I can wait.



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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    The Cuban embargo still exist because neither political party wants to upset the Cuban vote in Florida. Though more Cuban Americans are starting to loosen their position on the embargo.



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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    The Cuban embargo still exist because neither political party wants to upset the Cuban vote in Florida. Though more Cuban Americans are starting to loosen their position on the embargo.
    Bingo. It's not politically safe to lift the embargo due to Florida's strategic importance in the polls.

    Also, as a holdover sentiment from the Cold War, many would attack such an action as unAmerican.

    Incredibly poor reasons in my mind, but that's what it comes down to in my opinion.


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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    Cuban cigars are easy to get, you just go to a friendly country, and buy them, and then have them rewrapped in dominican labels. Errr ahhh so I have heard.


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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    There's also the issue of economic freedom. Cuba/Castro seized all land owned by foreign-owned business, which I'm sure amounts to billions of dollars in today's terms.



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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    According to the State Department, Cuba remains on the list because it has “publicly opposed” the U.S.-led war on terror and maintains friendly relationships with other state sponsors of terrorism, like Iran. Cuba in the past has provided shelter to fugitives from U.S. justice without extradition and hosted members of terrorist organizations.

    Link:
    State Sponsors: Cuba - Council on Foreign Relations


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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    A better question is why we do not have an economic embargo on Canada. Celine Dion, Bryan Adams, Keanu Reeves, metric system, arctic fronts. Must I go on?



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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    Quote Originally Posted by balken View Post
    A better question is why we do not have an economic embargo on Canada. Celine Dion, Bryan Adams, Keanu Reeves, metric system, arctic fronts. Must I go on?
    The KGB secretly own Canada.



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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    An extension of the Monroe Doctrine? The US owes much of it's security to the fact that it suffers no rivals in the immediate vicinity. Communism is not just another form of government. It is aggressive and subversive, and deserves the treatment that it gets from US policy.



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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    Quote Originally Posted by pulse View Post
    There's also the issue of economic freedom. Cuba/Castro seized all land owned by foreign-owned business, which I'm sure amounts to billions of dollars in today's terms.
    It wasn't like our US companies were exploiting things there in Cuba or that they had a corrupt government at the time of Castro's Revolution.

    Not a fan of Castro at all. But we could possibly have had a much greater positive impact if we had dialogue and trade with Cuba. Everyone else does but us.



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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    Warning, long answer. But you can't expect a brief one when you ask about something as complicated as this.

    First of all we don't have an embargo on Cuba "because Cuba is a communist state." The embargo was implemented by JFK as a punitive measure in response to the expropriation without compensation (theft) of $1.8 billion in American assets by the Castro regime.

    The embargo is punishment for violating the common sense rules of international business "thou shall not steal". I'm glad you mentioned China. A little thing you may not know about China is that even after Nixon "opened" to China we still did not trade with that country for several years until China settled for similar expropriations in 1979. Granted it was a pennies on the dollar and China's expropriations from the 1940s were tiny compared to Cuba's in the 1960s but China basically said "we get it, we're sorry, it won't happen again."

    Removing the embargo without first getting a similar gesture from the Cuban government sends a signal to Cuba and other countries that it's OK to steal from Americans as long as you are belligerent enough for long enough. If Cuba wants to be treated like China then they should do as China did.

    By the way that's not the only difference between Cuba and China. China has privatized HUGE segments of its economy, allows private property, etc. etc. Cuba's economy is still about 90% state owned. In China there's at least the hope that as the Chinese middle class rises that it will demand political reforms in Cuba. But Cuba has resisted such economic reforms precisely because of their democratizing effects.

    Lowering the embargo does not mean that American corporations will be able to go into Cuba and build strip malls and McDonalds franchises willy nilly. It means that only those American corporations that the regime deems acceptable will be able to conduct joint ventures, with the Cuban state holding the majority stake (the only way foreign companies are allowed to operate in Cuba), in only the industries that the central planners allow. All of the resource allocation decisions, employment decisions, compensation for workers decisions will be made by the same people who have been making disastrous decisions in Cuba for five decades: the communists.

    The entire western world except the U.S. already invests in and does business with Cuba under these rules and it has not drown castro in capitalism.

    Quite the opposite, it's extended castro a lifeline because he takes foreign money, squanders it and then finds a new group of suckers to take advantage of.

    The only "trickle down" that can occur is what the communist party officials allow and to date they have never allowed enough trickle down to make a difference. The average worker in Cuba makes less than $20 a month. American corporations in Cuba won't be allowed to pay more than that. In fact they wouldn't pay the employees at all. They would (as all foreign companies) have to pay the Cuban state at a negotiated rate for workers supplied by the state's employment agency that pays the workers that $20 maximum. The difference goes to the bureaucrats and the state. It's an enabling of the regime not a destabilizing of it.

    The real embargo in Cuba is the one the regime has put on its own people. It embargoes information, it embargoes freedom of speech, it embargoes freedom of movement and assembly it embargoes private property rights.

    It's Cuba that needs to change it's policies not the U.S.

    Lastly, the U.S. is currently Cuba's largest food supplier. Did you know that? There's an exception to the embargo for food and medicine that Cuba can buy for cash up front. This whole thing about the embargo is about two things, getting American tourist dollars (tourism in Cuba is down over the last few years and American tourists flocking to a once forbidden land will pump it up) and obtain credit. Because of the embargo Cuba can't borrow from certain international entities like the IMF and World Bank. Cuba wants credit because its free money it never has to pay back. Cuba's credit rating is garbage because it never pays anyone back. This is a country that had no foreign debt in 1959. Cuba now owes more than $15 billion to various countries and that doesn't include the Soviet Era debt it owes the Russians. It's all a shell game. The next suckers: the Americans.


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  13. #13
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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    It wasn't like our US companies were exploiting things there in Cuba or that they had a corrupt government at the time of Castro's Revolution.

    Not a fan of Castro at all. But we could possibly have had a much greater positive impact if we had dialogue and trade with Cuba. Everyone else does but us.
    Everyone else does. And how has that changed the situation in Cuba?

    I don't think the conditions for political prisoners in Cuba have gotten appreciably better since Canadian, British, French and other tourists began flooding the island almost 20 years ago.


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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    An extension of the Monroe Doctrine? The US owes much of it's security to the fact that it suffers no rivals in the immediate vicinity. Communism is not just another form of government. It is aggressive and subversive, and deserves the treatment that it gets from US policy.
    Let's not forget that Cuba allowed itself to become a base for Soviet Missiles that could reach Washington, it subverted and attempted to subvert Colombia, Nicaragua, Bolivia, Grenada and El Salvador. That's just in the Western Hemisphere. Let's not forget about Angola and the Congo.

    It may be tempting to think about the cold war as a quaint thing of the past that never really posed a threat to the U.S. but as late as 1988 the outcome was anything but certain. Castro is a bad actor and not the legitimate leader of Cuba.


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    Re: Why do we still have the economic embargo on Cuba?

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskaguy View Post
    According to the State Department, Cuba remains on the list because it has “publicly opposed” the U.S.-led war on terror and maintains friendly relationships with other state sponsors of terrorism, like Iran. Cuba in the past has provided shelter to fugitives from U.S. justice without extradition and hosted members of terrorist organizations.

    Link:
    State Sponsors: Cuba - Council on Foreign Relations
    Cuba continues to harbor scores of international terrorists including American cop killers.

    US Fugitives in Cuba


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