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  1. #1
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    keepngoal's Avatar
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    Dmac may be the best we can get... but

    Now hear me out on this.

    IMHO, Dmac is a great coach and he could have been put in place at the UofI instead of KF and had the same results. National media may be right, that Dmac is the best coach we can get.

    However, the downfall (again in my opinion) was Dmac's loyalty and success.

    • Loyalty
      • Brought in assistants that we wasn't able to fire
      • He could have talked to JP or BVD about buying these guys out and why they needed replacing
      • He has never quit anything, and people see this as a push out (granted look at the records). 2-9 in 2003 and likely 3-9 in 2006
    Has he ever fired or replaced a coach that didn't move on? I don't think he did. Dans major mistake was not cleaning the cupboards out now and then with staff that didn't pull their game day weight.
    • Success
      • There wasn't anything here, FB wise. It is the house that Dan built.
      • We were happy with 3 to 5 win seasons. but tasted what bowls are like. we tasted 9 win seasons, we tasted back to back winning seasons.
      • We beat rival teams at key points.
      • Fans now expect winning 6,7,8 and 9 games a year.
      • Fans now want bowl games.
    His success was his downfall; he started winning and we wanted the wins. And soon expected to win.

    Dans creation: ISU rising from the dead.
    Dans demise: ISU stumbling too often and too late in his tenure.

    to summarize: Dan, very easily, could be the best coach I will ever know at ISU. But that doesn't mean another coach can't move us to the next level, because I feel your assistants are 40% of the effort in maintaining excellence.

    - keep.


    The first and best victory is to conquer self; to be conquered by self is of all things most shameful and vile. - Plato

    May you only need 39 acres to turn your rig around. - keep

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    flander1649's Avatar
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    Re: Dmac may be the best we can get... but

    Sounds just like what KSU was saying about Snyder near his end.



  3. #3
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    Re: Dmac may be the best we can get... but

    I'm sorry, I completely disagree with you. Do you think that if Dan never got us to a bowl game that we'd still be happy with him? Do you think that constantly winning 5 or 4 games a year would have been enough to keep his job here instead of winning 6 or 7 games. Yes, he did a lot, he raised expectations, but, losing is losing and I don't think we'd have put up with season after season of losses and still had him here. My guess is that if 2000 didn't happen, that might have been the last for Dan. His success kept him here an made him an icon at ISU. It's bad football that is costing him his job. Because of his success, had we played some good games this year. Had we not gotten blown out by KSU and KU he'd probably still have his job now.



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    Re: Dmac may be the best we can get... but

    That's probably what Nebraska fans were saying when Bob Devaney retired in 1972.



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    Re: Dmac may be the best we can get... but

    You can't compare ISU to Nebraska.


    "If it was easy, someone else would have done it already." ISU Director of Athletics Jamie Pollard

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    Re: Dmac may be the best we can get... but

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonefan94 View Post
    I'm sorry, I completely disagree with you. Do you think that if Dan never got us to a bowl game that we'd still be happy with him? Do you think that constantly winning 5 or 4 games a year would have been enough to keep his job here instead of winning 6 or 7 games. Yes, he did a lot, he raised expectations, but, losing is losing and I don't think we'd have put up with season after season of losses and still had him here. My guess is that if 2000 didn't happen, that might have been the last for Dan. His success kept him here an made him an icon at ISU. It's bad football that is costing him his job. Because of his success, had we played some good games this year. Had we not gotten blown out by KSU and KU he'd probably still have his job now.
    Please don't misunderstand. I believe it was time for DMac to go... no one should allow a winless conference season after 12 years... especially if you had one in your 9th year. My point was is loyalty and success was his downfall. So it is ironic.

    - keep.


    The first and best victory is to conquer self; to be conquered by self is of all things most shameful and vile. - Plato

    May you only need 39 acres to turn your rig around. - keep

  7. #7
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    Re: Dmac may be the best we can get... but

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonefan94 View Post
    I'm sorry, I completely disagree with you. Do you think that if Dan never got us to a bowl game that we'd still be happy with him? Do you think that constantly winning 5 or 4 games a year would have been enough to keep his job here instead of winning 6 or 7 games. Yes, he did a lot, he raised expectations, but, losing is losing and I don't think we'd have put up with season after season of losses and still had him here. My guess is that if 2000 didn't happen, that might have been the last for Dan. His success kept him here an made him an icon at ISU. It's bad football that is costing him his job. Because of his success, had we played some good games this year. Had we not gotten blown out by KSU and KU he'd probably still have his job now.
    Where are all these 4 to 5 win seasons? 5 bowls in the last seven years means that in 5 of those years, ISU had 6, 7, 8 or 9 wins. The other two were 2 and 3 wins I believe. I agree on the KSU and KU games though. That had to be the final straw.



  8. #8
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    Re: Dmac may be the best we can get... but

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    Where are all these 4 to 5 win seasons? 5 bowls in the last seven years means that in 5 of those years, ISU had 6, 7, 8 or 9 wins. The other two were 2 and 3 wins I believe. I agree on the KSU and KU games though. That had to be the final straw.
    OK, if you really read was I was posting, you'd notice I was not saying he only won 4 or 5 games a year I was asking, what would have happened if that's all he did do. The post was made that his success was his downfall. And I was disagreeing with that. I wasn't saying that we actually had 4 and 5 win seasons. I was asking the question, "if we never got to a bowl game and the best Mac ever did was 4 or 5 wins a season, do you think he'd have still been here?" I was making the point that yes, he was successful, but, it was that success that allowed him to be here so long. Had he not gotten us to any bowl games, he'd have been gone long before we ever got to this.

    I guess for me, I just don't buy the argument that his success was his downfall. Yes, ISU football was bad when he took over, but, ISU would not have stood for only winning 4 or 5 games a year. Mac would have had to take us to a bowl game at some point to have been able to keep his job. I guess to me, the phrase, his success was his downfall, makes it sound like ISU was so bad, that Dan would have been better off not going to bowl games. That we would have accepted him better that way and I don't think that is the case.

    And yes Keepngoal, I will agree with you that loyalty was probably what really cost him. As far as success though, he had to have success to be here for 12 years. I just don't see his success as his downfall. If anything, it probably saved his job after the 2003 season.


    Last edited by Clonefan94; 11-13-2006 at 09:40 AM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Dmac may be the best we can get... but

    DM did help resuscitate ISU football, but I don't agree with your premise that loyalty and success was DM's undoing. DM's personality in my opinoin was a much bigger factor.

    DM is a very conservative personality. From my perspective DM fears failure and as a result coaches not to lose as opposed to coaching to win. This was one constant throughout DM's tenure and became a self-fulfilling prohpecy. Regardless of who the assistant coaches were this has been the case. Therefore, you can't place all the blame on the assistants. DM was obviously heavily involved in the conservative game plans that have existed throuhgout his tenure and with various coordinators.

    DM's conservative nature lead to predictable patterns that I feel opponents exploited. No matter who DM hired as assitants, I don't think you would have seen a difference in strategies or in game adjustments. No matter who the coordinator was you would still see us sit on a lead in the second half trying to run out the clock for the win. Ultimately it is this personality that cost Dan in the end.


    Last edited by mt85; 11-13-2006 at 11:35 AM.

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    Re: Dmac may be the best we can get... but

    mt85, good points about the conservative nature of Mac.

    Mac did fire Brickey and Fine after '03 season. It was basically their heads or his. Not a real choice. I don't think Mac had too many options this time. Fans were not going to be giving him another chance when he had 10 of 11 returning on offense and we were witnessing total domination by our conference foes. We lost some games last year but had chances to win every one. This year these games were beginning to be over by the 2nd quarter.



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