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  1. #1
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    Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    Stay with me on this for a sec. Both coaches came in and turned around very poor programs. They instilled an level of excitement -- more so for Orr with Hilton Magic, but clearly the Clones travel well to bowl games and a buzz was created around football under Mac. Orr went to the NCAAs. Mac went to bowl games. Orr's team struggled on the road and many times were around 500 in the conf. Mac teams also had road woes and had issues beating the better teams in the conference.

    Both coaches have done great things for ISU. For those that are old enough, you may also recall that many of us became frustrated with JO towards the end. Our expectations were greater. We wanted conference titles. We wanted conference tourney titles. 5-9 in the Big Eight with an NCAA bid was no longer enough. When we look back at his total contribution - we all love Coach, but most of us were ready for the next phase of ISU basketball.

    Is that where we are with Mac? I know many of us have expressed frustrations - but I think most agree that we respect Mac for the things he has done and for actually putting us in a position to demand more. I believe that if Mac is done and we are fortunate enough to find a Tim Floyd/sober Larry/G-Mac for football that in 10 years we will all look back fondly at Mac and say he is the guy that got us to a point to hire the guy who got us to the next level.

    Maybe I'm crazy here, but I surfaced the analogy with a Cyclone buddy back in Omaha today and we sensed some simliarities. Of course, he's a silly Tau, so what does he know.

    Let's Go State!



  2. #2
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    Re: Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    I don't mean to bring you down, but this analogy has been posted several times before on the various Cyclone boards. I think it is a pretty good one. The one place where it breaks down, as I see it, is that JO regularly beat the top rated conference teams. DM hasn't beat one top rated conference team in 12 years. Another thing you might want to take a look at is the winning % of the two coaches over their careers at ISU.

    IMO, the relative level of the FB program is presently lower than the level that JO had the MBB program at when he "retired".



  3. #3
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    Re: Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    Some similarities, some differences.



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    Re: Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    I think its a very poor analogy. Perhaps a little revisionist history. If there was any dissatisfaction with Orr, it in no way can be compared to Mac. As has been said, Orr's teams beat better teams and there was excitement. We consistently played well in a very strong conference given the competition. Johnny was a good head coach, Mac isn't.



  5. #5
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    Re: Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    To me the only similarity is that both will be here until they are done coaching basketball.

    other than that, I see no similarity in coaching techniques or program situatoins.

    - keep.

    EDIT: opps, just realized this was for DMac...... not GMac... yikes!


    The first and best victory is to conquer self; to be conquered by self is of all things most shameful and vile. - Plato

    May you only need 39 acres to turn your rig around. - keep

  6. #6
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    Re: Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    keep, the poster was comparing Johnny to D-Mac, not G-Mac.



  7. #7
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    Re: Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    Here are some numbers I quickly pulled together from the media guides, so there could be some mistakes, but hopefully not too many.

    JO coached at ISU for 14 seasons and his winning % was 0.522. For the 14 seasons prior to JO, ISU's winning % was 0.425. For equal time periods, ISU's winning % improved by 23% under JO.

    DM has coached at ISU for 12 years. If ISU splits the last two games this season, excluding ties, DM's winning % will be 0.415. For the 12 seasons prior to DM, ISU's winning % was 0.354. These winning % exclude ties. For equal time periods, ISU's winning % improved by 17% under DM.

    Keep in mind that ISU FB was suffering from NCAA sanctions for some of the 12 seasons prior to DM.



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    Re: Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    Nifty research.



  9. #9
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    Re: Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhtexas View Post
    Here are some numbers I quickly pulled together from the media guides, so there could be some mistakes, but hopefully not too many.

    JO coached at ISU for 14 seasons and his winning % was 0.522. For the 14 seasons prior to JO, ISU's winning % was 0.425. For equal time periods, ISU's winning % improved by 23% under JO.

    DM has coached at ISU for 12 years. If ISU splits the last two games this season, excluding ties, DM's winning % will be 0.415. For the 12 seasons prior to DM, ISU's winning % was 0.354. These winning % exclude ties. For equal time periods, ISU's winning % improved by 17% under DM.

    Keep in mind that ISU FB was suffering from NCAA sanctions for some of the 12 seasons prior to DM.

    You can't compare the 2 statistics between football and basketball. Compaing Orr and Mac is comparing apples to oranges, not apples to apples. If you want to comapre Mac to anyone, compare him to Johnny Majors or someone else. The dissapointment the football team has carried out during Macs reign can't be compared. Maybe they can be compared to volleyball or some other sport nobody pays attention to, but not our basketball program. Actually that's not bad, let compare Mac to the volleyball team. They were decent for a while in the 80's and 90s, but then the coach left and we plunged into the depths of dispair. Now they are actually kind of good again.



  10. #10
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    Re: Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    Quote Originally Posted by pulse View Post
    You can't compare the 2 statistics between football and basketball. Compaing Orr and Mac is comparing apples to oranges, not apples to apples. If you want to comapre Mac to anyone, compare him to Johnny Majors or someone else.
    Why would I want to compare DM to Johnny Majors when the point of the thread is to discuss where DM and JO took their respective programs??? All I did was to show how the winning % of MBB improved under JO, and how the winning % of the football program improved under DM. Nothing more.



  11. #11
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    Re: Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    How about comparing their salaries in real dollars?


    CFH HMagic bball season next year.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Does Mac = Johnny Orr?

    The thing about Mac is that, for the most part, I think people like him as a person and can respect the way he has gone about his job. Unlike Criner, who embarrassed our great university. Cheating and still losing - give me a break. With Walden, it seems like there was a lot of whining from his camp.

    I don't think anyone can compare Mac to Majors or Bruce. If he had achieved their level, he likely would have moved on, as they did.



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