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  1. #1
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    Always too quick to hit the panic button

    I'm always amazed by how quickly fans can panic. When the WJ transfer was announced, post after post seemed to imply something sinister was going on in the mbb program and that something was desparately wrong. This is the Titanic going down! Well, I see it as a pinhole leak in a rowboat.

    The player defection has been an issue since Tim Floyd was our coach. Since that time, we have won conference tournament championships (2 I think), conference championships (2 I think) and have been to the Elite 8. Yes, we need to curb the player loss, but every team loses players from time to time. I know we have lost a lot lately, but only 3 were of any real consequence, WJ, Haluska and Taggart. All of the others were fringe players who either left to get more playing time, or left because of coaching changes. This probably means we need to use our scholarships more wisely. But, on second thought, you can't have 15 starters and there are always going to be players looking for more PT.

    GMac has never had any problems dealing with players before and I just think WJ is very sensative and couldn't handle criticism. All the other players back GMac, including a player he kicked off the team, so I continue to be on GMac's side as I have always been. There have been posts from relatives of WJ bashing GMac. I frankly don't buy any of that unless WJ comes out and says it himself. GMac said in the press conference he told WJ what he was going to say, and WJ has not disputed it personally, so I am going to believe GMac's comments to be the truth. This is a blip on the radar, but we will replace Wesley and move on.

    GO CYCLONES!!!



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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    We all need to hit this button....
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    Cyclone
    Iowa State became the Cyclones after they leveled Northwestern in 1895. As the Chicago Tribune (9/29/1895) noted:
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    It Comes from Iowa and Devastates Evanston Town'

  3. #3
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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    I admire your optimism. However.....

    The fans who are think there are some major problems with our basketball program have way, way more information and facts to justify their beliefs than do the fans who think we are in great shape and the program is heading the right direction. In reality, its not even remotely close. Losing the majority of returning players on a yearly basis is a bad thing. A very bad thing, whatever the reason. Losing the best player in the face of the program is even worse.

    I'm still behind Gmac and I think he can turn it around, but I am certainly not full of faith at this point.

    I think any attempt to lecture fans who have major concerns or are very worried about where are basketball program currently stands is utterly ridiculous and requires an almost conscious effort to ignore our record on the court, and our record of player retention off the court.



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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    Quote Originally Posted by CloneIce View Post
    I'm still behind Gmac and I think he can turn it around, but I am certainly not full of faith at this point.
    We agree here and I'd say most do. Yet some detractors would like to believe that most are in blind faith mode, simply because they don't go around complaining about Greg every 5 minutes.



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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    Its not that there significant players, or anything else..its that they havnt stuck around for there career...Rashon clark is the last one i can think of that was a significant scorer/leader on the team, it needs to change but i do love the optimism



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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    Quote Originally Posted by CloneIce View Post
    I admire your optimism. However.....

    The fans who are think there are some major problems with our basketball program have way, way more information and facts to justify their beliefs than do the fans who think we are in great shape and the program is heading the right direction.
    Exactly where is all this info coming from, and how reliable are the sources? People always what to think that they're, "in the know", and put more trust in statements that they want to believe in simply because it supports their opinion.

    To bad-mouth people for not buying into all the negativity is ludicrous!!

    Please pardon we ignorant, under-informed optimists for having the audacity to think we had a right to think on our own.




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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    From what I have seen the last 24 hours it seems to me that those who think we are headed the right direction certainly have grounds to stand on. Simply for McD and our players to be able to handle the last 72 hours in the manner that they did gives me a lot of confidence that we have a class program in the making.



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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    Quote Originally Posted by CloneIce View Post
    I admire your optimism. However.....

    The fans who are think there are some major problems with our basketball program have way, way more information and facts to justify their beliefs than do the fans who think we are in great shape and the program is heading the right direction. In reality, its not even remotely close. Losing the majority of returning players on a yearly basis is a bad thing. A very bad thing, whatever the reason. Losing the best player in the face of the program is even worse.

    I'm still behind Gmac and I think he can turn it around, but I am certainly not full of faith at this point.

    I think any attempt to lecture fans who have major concerns or are very worried about where are basketball program currently stands is utterly ridiculous and requires an almost conscious effort to ignore our record on the court, and our record of player retention off the court.
    Those that have no concerns about our program or don't think we have any problems have no facts on their side...only opinions...like McD is a "great guy". Those like me that do have concerns have a number of facts at our command:

    -zero winning seasons under McDermott with especially poor records in Big 12 play.
    -not a single upset win in two years.
    -tremendous player turnover with the most productive player from his first two teams not returning for reasons other than expiration of eligibility.

    I do agree that he can still right the ship and turn things around but I would say that I have serious doubts at this point.

    I could not agree more with the last paragraph...you absolutely nail it!

    By the way, I would not characterize criticism of McDermott for his role in losing his best and most productive player for the second year in a row as "complaining about Greg every 5 minutes". I guess you just want us all to ignore the facts and concentrate on how "great of a guy" he is...huh?



    I cheer for two teams, Iowa State and whoever is playing the hawkeyes.

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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclonenum1 View Post
    Those that have no concerns about our program or don't think we have any problems have no facts on their side...only opinions...like McD is a "great guy". Those like me that do have concerns have a number of facts at our command:

    -zero winning seasons under McDermott with especially poor records in Big 12 play.
    -not a single upset win in two years.
    -tremendous player turnover with the most productive player from his first two teams not returning for reasons other than expiration of eligibility.

    I do agree that he can still right the ship and turn things around but I would say that I have serious doubts at this point.

    I could not agree more with the last paragraph...you absolutely nail it!

    By the way, I would not characterize criticism of McDermott for his role in losing his best and most productive player for the second year in a row as "complaining about Greg every 5 minutes". I guess you just want us all to ignore the facts and concentrate on how "great of a guy" he is...huh?
    You want some cheese with the wine there discombobulated, I mean darts, or whoever you are. Your posts are starting to take on the same meaning as that turd that just won't flush.

    I'll bet you are a tough one to live with.



  10. #10
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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    Quote Originally Posted by candg4ever View Post
    Exactly where is all this info coming from, and how reliable are the sources? People always what to think that they're, "in the know", and put more trust in statements that they want to believe in simply because it supports their opinion.

    To bad-mouth people for not buying into all the negativity is ludicrous!!

    Please pardon we ignorant, under-informed optimists for having the audacity to think we had a right to think on our own.

    Is that a freaking joke? I hope you are kidding. And nobody, anywhere was bad-mouthed in my post. I doubt you even read it.

    Where is the info coming from that supports the position of people who think we have problems with our b-ball programs? That is the single dumbest question I have ever seen:

    Won/Loss Record - You may not be aware, but that is a pretty telling stat as to the performance of a team and program. We have sucked hard, and we haven't even pulled off a good upset at the Hilton in years now.

    Player attrition - This speaks for itself. When you start every season off with no experience and most of your returning players leaving it is impossible to build a good program, especially when you run a fairly complex system like Gmac. Unless you are recruiting a ton of freshman studs, and we are not.



  11. #11
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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclonenum1 View Post
    Those that have no concerns about our program or don't think we have any problems have no facts on their side...only opinions...like McD is a "great guy". Those like me that do have concerns have a number of facts at our command:

    -zero winning seasons under McDermott with especially poor records in Big 12 play.
    -not a single upset win in two years.
    -tremendous player turnover with the most productive player from his first two teams not returning for reasons other than expiration of eligibility.

    I do agree that he can still right the ship and turn things around but I would say that I have serious doubts at this point.

    I could not agree more with the last paragraph...you absolutely nail it!

    By the way, I would not characterize criticism of McDermott for his role in losing his best and most productive player for the second year in a row as "complaining about Greg every 5 minutes". I guess you just want us all to ignore the facts and concentrate on how "great of a guy" he is...huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by CloneIce View Post
    Is that a freaking joke? I hope you are kidding. And nobody, anywhere was bad-mouthed in my post. I doubt you even read it.

    Where is the info coming from that supports the position of people who think we have problems with our b-ball programs? That is the single dumbest question I have ever seen:

    Won/Loss Record - You may not be aware, but that is a pretty telling stat as to the performance of a team and program. We have sucked hard, and we haven't even pulled off a good upset at the Hilton in years now.

    Player attrition - This speaks for itself. When you start every season off with no experience and most of your returning players leaving it is impossible to build a good program, especially when you run a fairly complex system like Gmac. Unless you are recruiting a ton of freshman studs, and we are not.
    Both of you are making the error of assuming that two things in a row that are similar are a "trend". Here's some news, sunshine, any two things that occur do not constitute a trend, especially when they are functionally dissimilar.

    Neither one of you guys have any "facts" that you haven't distorted for your own purposes, in your logical progression.

    I suspect it will take at least two more years for anyone to know if McD is a good coaching fit, here.

    Feel free to ignore my points, or claim that I don't have any "facts". I'll substitute "logic" and "principles" for your supposed "facts" (which neither of you nor the supposed "insiders" posting here are in possession of, either)

    But thanks for posting!


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  12. #12
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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    As far as panic goes, I don't think anyone is really overly quick to panic. Maybe a little quick to start passing judgment on everyone associated with the program, but, to be afraid something is wrong, it's almost the way of a Cyclone. What distresses me, is that this is happening with the BBall program. It was two short years ago, that I was told by many that we were a basketball school and not to hope for too good of things with Football. As much as we want football to succeed, I think a lot of us always put stock in our basketball team that we would be at the least, competetive. Well, things got bad and our hopes resting on a new coach are now becoming stressed considering we are now looking at a 3rd year of, at best, staying out of the bottom of the Big 12. I never really went into panic mode with this. It's just a bad stretch we are going through. I still belive ISU athletics is on the right track. Sometimes you find there are poeple that just don't want to ride along with us. IF WJ wasn't happy here, I don't want him here, no matter the reason. Maybe he, maybe others don't like McD's way of coaching. Mabye they don't like him. Fine, I wish we could change that, but, we only had WJ for 2 more years, we can't change a program to make one kid happy. That being said, I think a lot of people here really expect a lot from the basketball team. It's a sport we are used to winning in and have seen great things from in the past. So, you call it panic, I'll call it frustration. Acting out, lashing out on these boards is sometimes all we can do. When frustration sets in, it's easy to find faults in everything.

    I'm not here to say things will get better or I trust in McD. Hell, I don't know at all what to think. I do know things are crazy and to be honest, I can't really blame people for being upset or "panicking". What do you expect people to do when things keep going wrong to something they care a lot about? I really don't think we are losing fans over this. I'm not sure if we'll lose support, but, I do know that at the end of the day, winning is really the only thing that's going to matter. We can talk about how we're doing it right, McD is a good guy, etc. but, if you aren't winning games, this panic will only continue to grow and probably grow into something more ugly. Me, I'm rooting for McD to succeed, why, because he's our coach. He's not going anywhere this year or next and I hate it when Cyclones can't get along. But, blind Cyclone faith only goes so far. After years of frustation, without winning, this will only get worse.



  13. #13
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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Both of you are making the error of assuming that two things in a row that are similar are a "trend". Here's some news, sunshine, any two things that occur do not constitute a trend, especially when they are functionally dissimilar.

    Neither one of you guys have any "facts" that you haven't distorted for your own purposes, in your logical progression.

    I suspect it will take at least two more years for anyone to know if McD is a good coaching fit, here.

    Feel free to ignore my points, or claim that I don't have any "facts". I'll substitute "logic" and "principles" for your supposed "facts" (which neither of you nor the supposed "insiders" posting here are in possession of, either)

    But thanks for posting!
    That's hilarious. I never said that I didn't think GMAc was a good fit, or whatever you are trying to say. I argued that the original poster in this thread was being ridiculous for lecturing people who feel the program is in bad shape right now, because they are right based on the facts we have. As far as "two things not making a trend", apparently you ignored the first 6 or were sleeping up until a couple of months ago.

    Apparently you didn't notice the "facts" I stated before when you read it so I will repeat them again for you:

    W/L record - Ours has been very bad. Big 12 has just been dismal. We can't even pull off upsets at the Hilton anymoe. Fact.

    Player attrition - Ours has been very bad. Unusually, and almost incredibly bad. Doesn't matter the reason, it is a bad thing for the program and has kept it from moving forward. Fact.

    I still think we would have been an NCAA bubble team this year and would have had a good chance to be their next year without the constant attrition. Opinion.

    Now please tell me how these facts are in any way distorted.



  14. #14
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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    Quote Originally Posted by CloneIce View Post
    Now please tell me how these facts are in any way distorted.
    A few of the "defections" came with one coach leaving and had nothing to do with Mac.



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    Re: Always too quick to hit the panic button

    [/quote]
    Now please tell me how these facts are in any way distorted.[/quote]

    In addition to the total dissimilar ways the players have left, your sample is way too small and the language you present it is so "absolutist" as to be absurd.

    You're taking what, 2 years of coaching and making grand pronouncements on that?

    We don't really delay gratification, do we....


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