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    US Military rifle of choice

    Last edited by Cyclonepride; 04-20-2008 at 10:16 PM.

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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    I figured that the BFG9000 would be the gun of choice

    BFG9000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    I prefer the P90 in COD4, but I will allow that this possibly may not be completely in the realm of reality.

    My initial impression of the article is that just because a weapon isn't found to be ideal for SF operations might not mean it's not servicable as a general weapon. Kind of concerned that Colt got that big of contract on a no-bid basis, but perhaps that allows the military more flexibility of choice?



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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    From what I have heard is the AR-15 platform (M4, M-16) isn't perfect, but it is preferred by most over AK and other platforms.

    While there is some truth in it, I think that article is a little on the sensational side.

    The no-bid contract is bothersome to me. Our military has had a history of playing favorites to certain arms manufactures, especially if domestic. Some examples;

    The German built .45 Luger pistol actually beat out the 1911 Colt in field trials. Colt was awarded the contract anyway, under some mysterious circumstances, Luger withdrew from the competition for unknown reasons.

    The Springfield M1903 (WWI,WWII,) was nothing more than a dressed up copy of Model 98 Mauser of Germany. We were actually paying the Mauser company royalties to produce the M1903.

    Another is it took an act by the Defense secretary at the time to get the M-16 the standard weapon, moving the contract away from Springfield Armory.



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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    It jams too often in sandy environments like Iraq, he adds, and requires far more maintenance than more durable carbines.-That is VERY bad

    I prefer the CAR-15 or other wise known as the "Shorty"-Collapsable stock with a shortened barrel for close combat and for easy movement around when in full gear.


    The HK417 would be another choice


    I prefer something that has a collapsable stock and can be moble and be moved quickly from the at rest to attack postion-(lowered to the firing position)


    Last edited by Dave19642006; 04-20-2008 at 10:08 PM.

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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    Gun huh? I would think the US Military has a rifle of choice...


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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    Quote Originally Posted by TykeClone View Post
    I figured that the BFG9000 would be the gun of choice

    BFG9000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUCyclones View Post
    Gun huh? I would think the US Military has a rifle of choice...
    Fixed it for you......I just went off the article headline, but that does sound silly now that I think about it.



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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    I'm old school just give me a M16 on burst fire so i just have to give a double tap your chest.



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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    I prefer the P90 in COD4, but I will allow that this possibly may not be completely in the realm of reality.

    My initial impression of the article is that just because a weapon isn't found to be ideal for SF operations might not mean it's not servicable as a general weapon. Kind of concerned that Colt got that big of contract on a no-bid basis, but perhaps that allows the military more flexibility of choice?
    You rang? I'm pretty well-versed in the AR platform, of which weapons family both the M16 and the M4 (as well as the H&K 416) are a member.

    It's an okay piece, but changing weapons systems Army-wide during a conflict is a recipe for disaster, imo.

    The people quoted in the article are almost all employees of Heckler and Koch. It is instructive to note that H&K has an excreble track record of actually supporting their product, as a side note.

    In the article, it states the XM-8 was sidelined for "political" reasons. Actually, it was sidelined because a) the polymers it is constructed of would either melt or degrade under high heat conditions, and b) it's basic ergonomics/configuration were incompetent.

    The P90 and the other PDW candidates are very un-ergonomic; they are decent "shooting" weapons, but they are very poor fighting weapons, and the rounds they use are terminally ineffective on living, breathing targets. Doing magazine changes, for instance, is annoying, taking a sight picture under duress is difficult, and clearing malfunctions is nearly impossible.

    Having said all that, I wouldn't object to buying a US-designed and made short piston conversion kit for our soldiers' weapons. LWRC makes a very competent conversion for the pre-existing lower receivers at a decent price. H&K acts as if they invented the short piston assault rifle, when in fact, they are just re-re-remarketing an old (80+ year old) concept.


    Last edited by Phaedrus; 04-21-2008 at 12:12 AM.
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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post

    Having said all that, I wouldn't object to buying a US-designed and made short piston conversion kit for our soldiers' weapons. LWRC LWRC makes a very competent conversion for the pre-existing lower receivers at a decent price. H&K acts as if they invented the short piston assault rifle, when in fact, they are just re-re-remarketing an old (80+ year old) concept.
    I read somewhere that Colt offered the Military a piston driven version of the AR-15, but the military was not interested in it.



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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    Quote Originally Posted by herbicide View Post
    I read somewhere that Colt offered the Military a piston driven version of the AR-15, but the military was not interested in it.
    Correct. The WORST aspect of what H&K is doing here, is that they are being very disingenious in their smear campaign against the M16/M4, which is intended to reduce user confidence in time of war.

    H&K is lying about the exclusivity/innovativeness of design (short piston has been around since the 1920s)

    H&K is being deceptive about it being a "Colt" problem.

    H&K is lying about why the XM-8 was shelved.

    H&K is anti-private gun ownership, in that they refuse to sell uppers to put on civilian lowers.

    H&K has, since it's inception, had a track record of not supporting their products, once they've made a sale.

    H&K has spent a lot in marketing themselves as an elite arms-maker, when in reality, the majority of their products have been duds. In fact, their entire reputation is built on two products, one of which is a blatant rip-off of someone elses' design (CETME), and the other is just a redesign of the original ripped design (MP5)

    H&K appears to be buying senators, and journalists, to push their agenda.

    Personally, I don't have a problem with opening up bids and accepting new designs in 2009, but I wouldn't feel comfortable carrying an H&K product into "real" combat.


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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    honestly i love the M4s do they need some work.. ya.. but what makes me frusterated..is the way we distribute the weapons..


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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    I prefer the P90 in COD4, but I will allow that this possibly may not be completely in the realm of reality.

    My initial impression of the article is that just because a weapon isn't found to be ideal for SF operations might not mean it's not servicable as a general weapon. Kind of concerned that Colt got that big of contract on a no-bid basis, but perhaps that allows the military more flexibility of choice?
    I LOVE the P90 in COD4 as well - it fits my style of combat more - quick, stealthy movements to sneak up on unsuspecting targets, plus it shoots "from the hip" better than any of the other guns in the game - actually from my experience better than if you actually target it.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbicide View Post
    From what I have heard is the AR-15 platform (M4, M-16) isn't perfect, but it is preferred by most over AK and other platforms.

    While there is some truth in it, I think that article is a little on the sensational side.

    The no-bid contract is bothersome to me. Our military has had a history of playing favorites to certain arms manufactures, especially if domestic. Some examples;

    The German built .45 Luger pistol actually beat out the 1911 Colt in field trials. Colt was awarded the contract anyway, under some mysterious circumstances, Luger withdrew from the competition for unknown reasons.

    The Springfield M1903 (WWI,WWII,) was nothing more than a dressed up copy of Model 98 Mauser of Germany. We were actually paying the Mauser company royalties to produce the M1903.

    Another is it took an act by the Defense secretary at the time to get the M-16 the standard weapon, moving the contract away from Springfield Armory.
    From the History Channel program I watched last weekend, basically, the only people that that use AKs anymore are the people that can't afford to buy an M4/M16 platform.

    The M16 is (or at least was) the world's most reliable weapon. The M4 may be having some problems, but the M16 was disastrous in the early stages of Vietnam (the "geniuses" that the Secretary of Defense hired thought that chrome-plating the chamber and cleaning kits for the gun were "wastes of money." Um, yeah, how did that work out for our soldiers beforehand and after-the-fact?). They got the kinks worked out and the soldiers fell in love with the gun. The same thing will happen with the M4 if the gun isn't seriously flawed - which I don't think is the case.

    Seriously - this is just some serious sour grapes and an absolute smear campaign.


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    Re: US Military gun of choice

    Quote Originally Posted by jdoggivjc View Post
    basically, the only people that that use AKs anymore are the people that can't afford to buy an M4/M16 platform.
    Exactly. There are others out there, like the British stuff and HK G36, but they have detractors as well. The AR is the preferred platform to use right now.



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