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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    OK, since this did what it was supposed to, let me finish my post.

    The goal of what I wrote below was to solicit the debate that immediately followed it being posted. With all of the talk about ISU not being good enough to ever get more than 6-7 wins, I think first all fans need to realize what we are, and are not, up against. We may not have the resources or traditions of just about every single Big XII team, but if you don't act like you have just as much as they do, how in the world do you ever expect to succeed alongside them?

    Answer the following question now that everybody has had time to read and digest; Do you think KState, Colorado, or Nebraska has anything that ISU can't eventually have, except an already built tradition?

    What I think needs to happen before anybody can decide the fate of DMac is for the fans to first realize that always saying "x team has an advantage" gets you nowhere. I'm 24 and I've already had around 12 promotions at my current and previous employer. Do you think I got them by always saying John Doe probably has a better knowledge-base or a better background for that job? NO, I made myself be better, I made myself rise to the level of anybody around me. It's not about what you have, it's about what you want.

    Do you want ISU to succeed beyond 6-7 games a year? Then make it happen. The ball is in each and every one of your hands. Give donations, write letters, do what you do best and make it happen. Not everybody has the resources for donations or season tickets, but you can still try and convince those that do have the resources, to use them.

    This isn't only about what Mac is or isn't doing for the team, it's also about what the fans are ready and willing to do.

    Jeremy Lind

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    Jeremy Lind

    I want to respond to some of that national pundits and media personalities that have commented about how ISU fans should be content with 6-7 wins and nothing more....

    Despite what the national media thinks, ISU is very capable of more than 6-7 wins with the fans, facilities, and money that we have. What makes us any different than any of the other Big XII teams? We may not have the tradition of Texas, Oklahoma, or Nebraska and we may not have the biggest stadium or budget, but we sure as heck better be able to compete with Texas A&M, Missouri, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Colorado, Baylor, Kansas, and Kansas State each year and come out ahead fairly often. Those schools have no advantage over us when you compare everything they have to offer.

    So why does ISU have a chance to succeed now when they haven't in the past? The biggest thing that I think makes our chances of success greater this time is the fact that the fans are ready to support the program to get it to that next level, regardless of what it takes. While ISU fans have always been loyal, they haven't been well prepared to spend the extra $$$ for each ticket or donation that success requires. With Jamie Pollard at the helm, I believe very much that the fans are actually more ready than the program itself is. The fans have really stepped up the past two years, it's time the recruiting, budget, and success follows.

    I know it's hard to admit that we as ISU fans haven't been ready to step up in the past for FB, but it's the honest truth. Look at the success (albeit despised by me) that Iowa has gotten to in a relatively short amount of time. How did they get going again? The fans were ready to spend the money to get there. They put up the money, got a great coach, and the success followed. Now they have a tremendous level of respect nationally and they've just recently completed a huge renovation of their stadium. I think a lot of you would agree that Iowa could probably do even better than it is right now.

    I personally think, regardless of what happens to Mac this year, that this program is going to be pushed to that next level simply because the fans are now willing to put forth the money and effort it's going to take. In the past, the head coaches (pretty much just DMac) had to try and pull the program up to the next level, now the fans are pushing, but nothing's budging. While there are endless opinions on why nothing is budging, there is no question that Jamie Pollard is going to make sure the program gets in gear, regardless of what it takes.

    So to summarize, I ask the critics this;

    Why is it that you think Iowa State can't be a 9 or 10 win team every couple of years? What makes Iowa State so different that success can't be achieved in College Football? Have you ever stepped foot in Jack Trice? Have you ever seen the love the loyal fans give their hometown heroes? Have you ever stopped smoking pot long enough to realize it's not the 80's or 90's anymore and that ISU has won a couple of games here or there?

    Rebuttal about Big XII competition:

    Some schools have more "tradition", some have better stadiums, some have bigger fan-bases, but none of the schools has a sum of all parts that is far greater than ISU. I'm not saying that each school doesn't have some sort of advantage, but I just don't buy it anymore that any of those schools is just flat out better suited ALL AROUND for success.

    Remember, tradition is relative. I would say that although Colorado, OK State, and Kansas State all have pretty good traditions, the programs are in the tank right now. Colorado is fast at rebuilding and that is even more of a reason for us to get going.

    Baylor and Texas A&M have the Texas recruiting advantage but that's about it. A&M has some history, but nothing that most would know about.

    Kansas is just not even a debate.

    Missouri has had many opportunities at greatness but has fallen flat on their faces most of the time. I would argue that Missouri and ISU are pretty comparable when everything is figured in.


    Last edited by Jeremy; 10-24-2006 at 07:59 PM.
    A program isn't built on one player and it doesn't succeed because of one player, thus a program won't fail if it doesn't get that one player.

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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    but we sure as heck better be able to compete with Texas A&M, Missouri, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Colorado, Baylor, Kansas, and Kansas State each year and come out ahead fairly often. Those schools have no advantage over us when you compare everything they have to offer.
    All of them still have a better tradition in football with exception to Baylor and Kansas. And, Baylor and Kansas have defeated us recently.

    Plus, I think all but one of those schools has a bigger budget than we do. Most of them pay more to their football coaching staff than we do.

    That does not mean however, we can't compete with them. I'm just proving these schools do in fact have an advantage on us in a few arenas.

    This is something we as a program can change - the players/coaches by winning and the fans by supporting the program with butts in seats and dollars donated.

    It will take a complete group effort to get it done.



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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    I think Kansas State is a good example that lack of tradition, money, and location are not impossible obstacles to overcome. They went from one of the worst teams in college football to national title contenders in a few years. Now, Mac may be the man to make this happen, or he may not. The issue I have is people saying that it can't happen and we should accept that.



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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    Some schools have more "tradition", some have better stadiums, some have bigger fan-bases, but none of the schools has a sum of all parts that is far greater than ISU. I'm not saying that each school doesn't have some sort of advantage, but I just don't buy it anymore that any of those schools is just flat out better suited ALL AROUND for success.

    Remember, tradition is relative. I would say that although Colorado, OK State, and Kansas State all have pretty good traditions, the programs are in the tank right now. Colorado is fast at rebuilding and that is even more of a reason for us to get going.

    Baylor and Texas A&M have the Texas recruiting advantage but that's about it. A&M has some history, but nothing that most would know about.

    Kansas is just not even a debate.

    Missouri has had many opportunities at greatness but has fallen flat on their faces most of the time. I would argue that Missouri and ISU are pretty comparable when everything is figured in.


    A program isn't built on one player and it doesn't succeed because of one player, thus a program won't fail if it doesn't get that one player.

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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    No offense, but I think that A&M has an incredible advantage over us. They have a ton more money, a ton more fans, some of the best facilities in the country, and a very strong recruiting base to build off of. If we could get to Texas A&M's program strength, I would wake up every morning with a smile on my face.




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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    I personally think, regardless of what happens to Mac this year, that this program is going to be pushed to that next level simply because the fans are now willing to put forth the money and effort it's going to take. In the past, the head coaches (pretty much just DMac) had to try and pull the program up to the next level, now the fans are pushing, but nothing's budging. While there are endless opinions on why nothing is budging, there is no question that Jamie Pollard is going to make sure the program gets in gear, regardless of what it takes.
    Exactly right Jeremy. I'm not going to say that Mac should or shouldn't go, I'll leave that decision to JP. I will continue to support ISU whether Mac is the coach or whether it's someone else.

    Part of me thinks Mac is a victim of his own "success". And I mean success in relation to ISU football, not national success like USC, OSU, Mich, etc. Mac raised the program from the dead. He gave us a taste of winning.

    After that taste, the fans want more. I don't know if Mac can give us more. But the hunger is there and the fans will pony up to get us there.

    Whatever happens, Mac will leave this program in much better shape than he started with. You can't say that about a lot of coaches. And I thank him for that.



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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    If you don't think Texas a@M has more tradition, Money and fans than Iowa State then you are insane. I have been there and seen the tradition. I have seen the enormous stadium. I even watched a movie on ESPN about Bear Bryant coaching there. I also drove by all the oil wells on the way to the stadium. I watched George Bush Senor give a purple heart at halftime. A@M smokes us.

    Oky State. Boon Pickens=$$$$ way more than ISU. The stadium and athletic improvements are far superior to anything ISU will ever have.

    Missouri is half on par with us however they don't have another in state school with more money. They have it all to themselves.

    Same with NU.

    Colorado is in the beutiful mountains and is very nice place.

    Texas Tech is in a recruiting crazy state so they have far more recruiting resources than ISU.

    So that leaves KU, KSU, and ISU. KU is basketball school, KSU is about to become a basketball school, and ISU is by far a basketball school.


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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    Jeremy the more and more you talk the more i lose respect for you. If you think ISU has all that the other schools have to offer than you are crazy. Not even close, not even comparable. No tradition, no money, bad weather, bad stadium in comparison. How do you bring in recruits with all that??

    And KSU got better quickly cuz they are located where the best JUCO talent in the country is located and they have there pickens there. Makes rebuilding a program easier when your bringin in the top JUCO players year in and year out



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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    this program is going to be pushed to that next level simply because the fans are now willing to put forth the money and effort it's going to take.
    ...goodness Jeremy, does that mean my entire history of funds donated to ISU athletics has been fornot?
    Have you ever seen the love the loyal fans give their hometown heroes?
    ...since when has that decided a national (or conf.) title?
    and that ISU has won a couple of games here or there
    ...List 5 games of major importance... make it 3... where people are still standing around the water cooler talking about to this day. I see some real genius in your story "J", ...and I couldn't agree more with your defense of our university, but to be honest with you.... I really can't think of any D1 institution that has held on to a coach (and staff) for 12+ years finishing the season occasionally just above .500 year in & year out. I might be berated with "for instances" here, but honestly... how long are we going to be saying... just give him 1 more year. The enevitable is, Coach Mac will ultimately leave. Be fired, quit, resign to another team? (I prefer the latter.) But how much longer do we need to suffer thru ho-hum season's? And if JP ever extends Mac's contract..... he must owe him something fierce. I certainly hope one way or the other, something incredibly good will happen at the end of this season. As ever...

    GO CYCLONES!



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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by clonestotop View Post
    Jeremy the more and more you talk the more i lose respect for you. If you think ISU has all that the other schools have to offer than you are crazy. Not even close, not even comparable. No tradition, no money, bad weather, bad stadium in comparison. How do you bring in recruits with all that??

    And KSU got better quickly cuz they are located where the best JUCO talent in the country is located and they have there pickens there. Makes rebuilding a program easier when your bringin in the top JUCO players year in and year out
    You really think that ISU doesn't have anything to offer??? If that's the case, why have a football team, why have a basketball team? We can't compete. We are just poor little Iowa State. Time to pack up shop.

    How do you explain the University of Iowa? They have the exact same tools and resources we have. Sure they have more money but they also EARNED that money. Hayden Fry earned that money. Kirk Ferentz is earning that money.

    You have to EARN tradition, you have to EARN money, with that you can recruit better, you can afford expensive scoreboards and stadium expansions. All it takes it to get the right guy in the driver's seat.

    It's not easy but it's not impossible. It can be done. I think it WILL be done.



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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    How do you explain the University of Iowa? They have the exact same tools and resources we have. Sure they have more money but they also EARNED that money. Hayden Fry earned that money. Kirk Ferentz is earning that money
    To campare the resources ISU has vs. Iowa you have to be insane. Iowa has ISU outnumbered in fans and financial support. If you don't beleive me look at there stadium. They are right next to illinois and they have a great TV deal compared to us.

    I think you all are in dream land if you think we can compete with the big boys. I think we can make some great one year runs with some decent success. To compete with the bigs you are very young in your thinking. I used to think that when I was young.

    Also What price do you want to compete at. Do you want to be looked at like Kansas State? Do you want a turn your cheak toward the crookedness that happens. I don't./


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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclonedrew View Post
    To campare the resources ISU has vs. Iowa you have to be insane. Iowa has ISU outnumbered in fans and financial support. If you don't beleive me look at there stadium. They are right next to illinois and they have a great TV deal compared to us.

    I think you all are in dream land if you think we can compete with the big boys. I think we can make some great one year runs with some decent success. To compete with the bigs you are very young in your thinking. I used to think that when I was young.

    Also What price do you want to compete at. Do you want to be looked at like Kansas State? Do you want a turn your cheak toward the crookedness that happens. I don't./
    I am not old, but I am not young either. Why is it so out of the realm that ISU could CONSISTENTLY win 8-9 games and OCCASIONALLY have a special 10-11 win season??? Why? Also, do tell what all of this supposed corruption in the KSU FB program is. I have seen mention made of this on nearly every ISU fan site. Please inform me of the supposed cheating that took place there. As far as I know they never went on probation. Yes, they recruited JC's heavily. Hmmm... Guess what ISU is doing this year.


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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    Why is it so out of the realm you ask. Well if you do something for 100 years and you still can't do it. Then maybe you can't do it. Something to think about.


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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclonedrew View Post
    Why is it so out of the realm you ask. Well if you do something for 100 years and you still can't do it. Then maybe you can't do it. Something to think about.
    So, I guess that is it then. Let's fold up the program or move to the MAC. We can't compete with all of the tradition or money of the other programs.

    Also, you didn't answer my question regarding the supposed cheating at KSU. Could it be that KSU did not cheat and that certain ISU fans use that as an excuse to cover up for ISU's lack of performance at the same time? I really am interested in knowing what the supposed cheating was at KSU.


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    Re: Is there a next level for ISU Football?

    So, I guess that is it then. Let's fold up the program or move to the MAC. We can't compete with all of the tradition or money of the other programs.
    Listen don't blow everything out of proportion. I think we can make a few runs here and there but if you think we are going to win 9-10 games every year then you are going to pull your hair out because it is not going to happen. Quit drinking the cool aide.

    Second you know how K-State football recruited with Snyder and if you don't then you have been under a rock. Even Snyder said he did not recruit a player until they commited to another school.


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