Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond
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    Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    This year through the use of CR and CF, I have watched the recruiting of FB players closer than I have in years past. During this time I have seen numerous commits and de-commits. Many, including myself, often get excited or frustrated over gaining/losing recruits.

    I encourage fans not to judge the recruiting class until at least signing day if not later. First, we do not know what players we even have, even sometimes with some recruiting service/insider information. IMO, wait until we see them on the field to make those judgements.



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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    I would vote for judging them MUCH later.

    Some of the players will have an impact this fall. In this day and age of 85 scholarships some freshmen must play. How many play, and what impact (positive or negative) they have will go a long ways to saying how good this class is...

    But, for the vast majority of recruiting classes I don't think you can get an accurate read on them until at least after their first spring in the program. By spring 2009 the coaches will have a very good idea what they have, and the players that aren't going to work out will have transferred or dropped out of football.

    Basically, set your clock for fall 2009 and fall 2010 to judge this class....



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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by uthaman View Post
    I would vote for judging them MUCH later.

    Some of the players will have an impact this fall. In this day and age of 85 scholarships some freshmen must play. How many play, and what impact (positive or negative) they have will go a long ways to saying how good this class is...

    But, for the vast majority of recruiting classes I don't think you can get an accurate read on them until at least after their first spring in the program. By spring 2009 the coaches will have a very good idea what they have, and the players that aren't going to work out will have transferred or dropped out of football.

    Basically, set your clock for fall 2009 and fall 2010 to judge this class....
    Definitely is the case. Most people have already anointed Kris Means as an outstanding player and he has yet to see the field in a meaningful role. Does that mean he won't be a great player for us? No, and if he goes on to help us these next few years, everyone will feel he was a great sign. That should be the attitude for all of the rest of the guys. If you get two years of solid play out of the majority of players you sign, you would be light years ahead of some teams.



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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    I agree with both sentiments ... don't react until the recruiting class is signed (remember these are kids and this is probably their biggest commitment of their lives at this point) and the judging the contribution or the value of the recruiting class comes MUCH later (again these are kids still growing and learning).

    I would never pay for recruiting information as it is mostly gathered by networking (a friend or a former coach said something to someone) and soon the rumors are posted. Having faith in the coach who is pulling down major $ to know how to do his job (and recruiting players is a large part of doing his job) is the only way to go.

    While many find it fun to speculate and drool over posted physical attributes of 6'3", 225 lbs, 40 time of 4.4, remember these are mostly kids who are in for a huge life change.



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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    I won't but I won't lie that the lack of star quality and the recent de-commits worries me a little. In order to build winning programs you have to recruit talent and while I realize the star ratings are not always accurate, even some of the bottom teams in the Big 12 are signing more 3 star than 2 star guys and even a 4 star or 2 as well. If we ever want to get to where we want with the FB program we need to be seeing guys that some of the big schools in the conference recruited that chose us over them. Why do you think that Texas and Oklahoma are consistently good? Because the recruit the best talent year after year.

    We have immediate playing time to offer at a lot of positions which I would think should be a big selling point for some decent recruits.


    Go Cubs Go!

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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    Stars donít mean anything. In fact, names really donít mean that much either. It is entirely the attitude of the kids and the abilities of the coaches. In the last seven years here are ISUs 4-star recruits.

    Austin Flynn
    Stevie Hicks
    Curtis James
    Collin Menard
    Federico Samuel
    Max Steward
    Webster Patrick
    Paul Fisher
    Walter Nickel
    JJ Bass



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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclonelifer View Post
    Stars donít mean anything. In fact, names really donít mean that much either. It is entirely the attitude of the kids and the abilities of the coaches. In the last seven years here are ISUs 4-star recruits.

    Austin Flynn
    Stevie Hicks
    Curtis James
    Collin Menard
    Federico Samuel
    Max Steward
    Webster Patrick
    Paul Fisher
    Walter Nickel
    JJ Bass
    Good Point!



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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    I will agree that to a point "stars" do matter. If you give me the choice of 25 4-star players, or 25 2-star players, the choice is a no-brainer....

    But, stars are only someone's evaluation of that players talent or ranking. They don't often take into account a kid's attitude, coachability, growth potential, desire, etc.

    You need to put your trust in our coaching staff. That they can evaluate the kids above the simple measurables that the star ratings give us. Ferentz did not take Iowa to the Orange Bowl with a class of 4 star recruits. Mangino did not take Kansas to the BCS with 4 stars. If the coach and staff are right, then success will come!!!



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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclonelifer View Post
    Stars donít mean anything. In fact, names really donít mean that much either. It is entirely the attitude of the kids and the abilities of the coaches. In the last seven years here are ISUs 4-star recruits.

    Austin Flynn
    Stevie Hicks
    Curtis James
    Collin Menard
    Federico Samuel
    Max Steward
    Webster Patrick
    Paul Fisher
    Walter Nickel
    JJ Bass
    Flynn was solid, Colin Menard was ok, and Stevie Hicks had his up times but WOW. What a list of wasted recruits.

    JJ Bass not included... hes a great player who had the injury bug some last year.



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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    Why do we judge recruits? why not leave that to the coaches and instead focus on evaluating players once they reach the field? I understand that people have nothing to do in the offseason, but is there any reason we can't put a focus on how our current players are improving during this time since a large chunk of the new recruits are not going to be making big contributions until they are in the system for a while?



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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    2 of the 4* didnt even shoe up,1 was stevie hicks(garbage), and the rest were juco guys, hopefully bass can do good next year, and wasnt Trent Flander a 4* tightend from valley in either 05 or 06



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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    Stars do matter and to thing they don't is crazy. There are 117 D1 coaches and all of them are pretty good otherwise they wouldn't be where they are. To think that Chiz is head and shoulders above all the others is wishful thinking seeing as he's been a head coach for about 1 year.

    Our class is average at best but the story won't be told until 4-5 years have passed. Honestly this isn't the class of anyone's dreams - especially our coaching staff. You don't lose 4-5 high quality players and just go grab another from the stack.

    Someone did a nice analysis of "stars" with Iowa, KU and MU and they consistently ranked far above us. They consistently finished in the top 50 in classes while we never finished that high. Just a little extra talent makes good coaching go that much further.

    Trust Chiz and know that better things are coming.



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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by pdxclone View Post
    I agree with both sentiments ... don't react until the recruiting class is signed (remember these are kids and this is probably their biggest commitment of their lives at this point) and the judging the contribution or the value of the recruiting class comes MUCH later (again these are kids still growing and learning).

    I would never pay for recruiting information as it is mostly gathered by networking (a friend or a former coach said something to someone) and soon the rumors are posted. Having faith in the coach who is pulling down major $ to know how to do his job (and recruiting players is a large part of doing his job) is the only way to go.

    While many find it fun to speculate and drool over posted physical attributes of 6'3", 225 lbs, 40 time of 4.4, remember these are mostly kids who are in for a huge life change.

    I reseve the right to drool over any 4.4 player, any weight. That is the speed we need.


    Let my Fred's Posse Ride: Georges, Naz, Hogue, Bryce, Nader, Monte, Matt, and McKay.

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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by SpokaneCY View Post
    Stars do matter and to thing they don't is crazy. There are 117 D1 coaches and all of them are pretty good otherwise they wouldn't be where they are. To think that Chiz is head and shoulders above all the others is wishful thinking seeing as he's been a head coach for about 1 year.

    Our class is average at best but the story won't be told until 4-5 years have passed. Honestly this isn't the class of anyone's dreams - especially our coaching staff. You don't lose 4-5 high quality players and just go grab another from the stack.

    Someone did a nice analysis of "stars" with Iowa, KU and MU and they consistently ranked far above us. They consistently finished in the top 50 in classes while we never finished that high. Just a little extra talent makes good coaching go that much further.

    Trust Chiz and know that better things are coming.

    2007 class for the amount of recruiting so far is more impressive than the 2008 class to date. However, the 4 stages of rating a class:

    2008 Class Evaluation Example
    Present 20 Jan 08 - rating average to date and totally comparable to 6 years

    Feb 08 signing day - TBD very soon

    Fall on 2008 on campus - TBD to see who does what and redshirts

    Fall 2012 - Last Shot TBD to see who had a good career after several redsirts

    Sounds like the post statistical reports that occur long after the facts...


    Let my Fred's Posse Ride: Georges, Naz, Hogue, Bryce, Nader, Monte, Matt, and McKay.

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    Re: Don't judge the recruiting until signing day/beyond

    Quote Originally Posted by SpokaneCY View Post
    Stars do matter and to thing they don't is crazy. There are 117 D1 coaches and all of them are pretty good otherwise they wouldn't be where they are. To think that Chiz is head and shoulders above all the others is wishful thinking seeing as he's been a head coach for about 1 year.

    Our class is average at best but the story won't be told until 4-5 years have passed. Honestly this isn't the class of anyone's dreams - especially our coaching staff. You don't lose 4-5 high quality players and just go grab another from the stack.

    Someone did a nice analysis of "stars" with Iowa, KU and MU and they consistently ranked far above us. They consistently finished in the top 50 in classes while we never finished that high. Just a little extra talent makes good coaching go that much further.

    Trust Chiz and know that better things are coming.
    Why are you picking those three programs? KU and MU have one good year and they are now the measuring line for success. Remember the class that Iowa recruited just 2 years ago? They had more players on the Army All Star teams than Texas. But what have those 4and 5 star players done for them. If I remember correctly didn't lowly ISU beat them this year?



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