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  1. #91
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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by BWRhasnoAC View Post
    Sorry that you are the one to be singled out, but this type of response is the most annoying and deflating for me.

    The guy actually made valid points, and no I'm not going to have a better resume than Mangino, which you seem to be throwing around as your own (for reasons beyond me) to inflate your own opinion, about why some poor guy that was offering his opinion for nothing more than discussion, is a total idiot for showing his face. (Yes, that was a huge run on sentence.)

    I like to encourage discussion, and these type of responses completely discourage people's ability to converse and more importantly LEARN about football. There are people on here who have coached, or do currently coach. There are also people on here who played football into their college years, or have been around it their whole lives.

    So let's please stop belittling people for having a discussion. Especially a hypothetical one that bares no merit on you because everyone uses anonymous user names...
    Understand your sentiments. We happen to disagree about him having valid points. Regardless, this is a site for discussion. I will try to tone down my comments.



  2. #92
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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    With the size of our WRs we better throw down field a few times a game. Lazard and Montgomery will make QB look short. A deep int is just as good as a punt, sometimes you got nuthin to lose.


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  3. #93
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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    Understand your sentiments. We happen to disagree about him having valid points. Regardless, this is a site for discussion. I will try to tone down my comments.
    It's great if you don't think I make valid points, I'd just like you to explain why you don't think they are valid, that's all.

    It doesn't do anyone any good to just say..... "You don't ever make any valid points.".

    If you don't think we should throw deep more, fine, but at least tell me why not.



  4. #94
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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by clonedude View Post
    It's great if you don't think I make valid points, I'd just like you to explain why you don't think they are valid, that's all.

    It doesn't do anyone any good to just say..... "You don't ever make any valid points.".

    If you don't think we should throw deep more, fine, but at least tell me why not.
    I'm all for utilizing the big WRs on deep routes, but first the o-line will have to prove that they can provide enough time for the QB and whoever starts at QB will have to show they can consistently deliver a catchable ball. Those are both big unknowns right now.



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    Lightbulb Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by jbindm View Post
    I'm all for utilizing the big WRs on deep routes, but first the o-line will have to prove that they can provide enough time for the QB and whoever starts at QB will have to show they can consistently deliver a catchable ball. Those are both big unknowns right now.
    I agree with that assessment.

    Just out of curiosity though, do you think throwing deep is a risky play?

    Percentage wise, I don't think it's all that risky at all personally. I'd say the chance of an INT on those plays is pretty low. Usually either the offensive guy comes down with it or more often than not it's incomplete. And on the rare occasion that it is intercepted, it's the equivalent of a punt basically.

    Obviously, if it's incomplete you can say it was a wasted down, but I would beg to differ. Just the fact you threw it deep will loosen up the defense IMO.

    And if it's intercepted you could make the point that you could have possibly driven the ball down the field slowly and scored, but now you've given up that chance. That's true, but more often than not, ISU drives end in punts anyway, so what's the difference really?



  6. #96
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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by clonedude View Post
    I agree with that assessment.

    Just out of curiosity though, do you think throwing deep is a risky play?

    Percentage wise, I don't think it's all that risky at all personally. I'd say the chance of an INT on those plays is pretty low. Usually either the offensive guy comes down with it or more often than not it's incomplete. And on the rare occasion that it is intercepted, it's the equivalent of a punt basically.

    Obviously, if it's incomplete you can say it was a wasted down, but I would beg to differ. Just the fact you threw it deep will loosen up the defense IMO.

    And if it's intercepted you could make the point that you could have possibly driven the ball down the field slowly and scored, but now you've given up that chance. That's true, but more often than not, ISU drives end in punts anyway, so what's the difference really?
    It's a situational thing. You don't want them to be predictable where you know that on third down they're just chucking it down one of the sidelines and hoping for the best. But yeah, in theory a few deep throws a game helps loosen up the defense and create more opportunities underneath the coverage. But keep in mind that while it's a low risk play, it's also a low percentage play. No matter how good or big the receivers are, a deep fade along the sideline is a tough throw for a good QB. Right now we don't even know what we have at that position.



  7. #97
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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by clonedude View Post
    I know they did. And they were dead on correct. As I said, it doesn't take a flippin' genius to know that opposing defenses completely stacked the box against us, yet Mess did nothing to make them pay for it.

    But hey, I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm just some stupid fan. Everyone in the stadium knows we don't throw deep enough, but I'm the only stupid one. Got it.

    All I know is that last year we rarely ever saw our QB just throw it up deep and allow one of our WRs to make a play on it. We worry WAY too much about turnovers IMO. I understand you can't have stupid turnovers, especially on your own end of the field, but I'm not talking about that.

    I'm talking about, on let's say 2nd and 4 from your own 40 yd line, just throw one up down the sideline really deep to Bundrage, Montgomery, Lazard, Daley, whoever... and let them make a play on it. We did that probably 4 times a game with Todd Blythe back in the day, and look how that worked out. Pretty darn well.

    That game we won at Texas A&M back in the day where Blythe had 4 TD catches, and most of them were deep balls, and we smoked them. Remember that? That could have NEVER happened if Mess would have been our OC. He would have thrown WR bubble screens to Blythe all day for 2 yd gains.

    Watch Baylor play. They throw deep more often than any team I've seen. I don't think we can do it as often as they do, but we can surely do it once in a while to loosen up the defense if nothing else.

    I'm going to go watch some highlights of Mangino's KU teams tonight and see if he aired it out deep much. I hope he did. If I remember correctly, I think he did with Reesing at QB and Briscoe I believe it was at WR, but I will check it out.
    I do agree with throwing the ball deep. But a deep ball is predicated on your offensive line blocking long enough to let your receivers time enough to get down field. But with Klenakis and his teaching the offensive line the matador block (hold red cape and let the bull through and holler oley) and the lookout block (you try to block a guy and he runs right past you and holler to qb lookout). There wasn't really any time. But I am an Oakland Raiders fan (publicly admitting it) and I do love me some deep throws (any of you sickos don't insert anything here) down field.



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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Mangino will take what he gets. Put the defense in bad spots, and exploit their tendencies. That means if the deep ball is there, and we have the time to get it done, surely it will happen. If our o-line is good this year, we will rack up points big time.



  9. #99
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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Would be nice to see some videos posted (Kansas and Oklahoma games) and some analysis of the play calling. I am not qualified to provide such analysis but just a thought.


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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by BWRhasnoAC View Post
    Mangino will take what he gets. Put the defense in bad spots, and exploit their tendencies. That means if the deep ball is there, and we have the time to get it done, surely it will happen. If our o-line is good this year, we will rack up points big time.
    Couldnt agree more. Mangino called the plays from the sidelines and made great adjustments on the fly when at ku. He's a guy who knows what he's going to be doing 5 plays later. Blaney is incredibly smart and has been Mangino right hand man throughout which is why when he was hired the very first move was to get Blaney from the NFL. We aren't going to win the big 12 but I don't think people realize yet how much better our game day coaching on offense is going to be...going from Mess to Mangino and Blaney. Huge difference. This offense will be disciplined, simple, and effective.

    when arguably the current best offensive mind in cfball(Briles) calls you a stud you know you've got reason to go into the season optimistic. If ISU can't produce a semi potent offense in two years with one of the best OCs in the last 30 years then it prob won't ever happen.



  11. #101
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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by ripvdub View Post
    With the size of our WRs we better throw down field a few times a game. Lazard and Montgomery will make QB look short. A deep int is just as good as a punt, sometimes you got nuthin to lose.
    Throwing deep is only going to be effective if a decent percentage of the passes are completed. In the past few years QB accuracy has been really bad on deep passes. Way over half the passes were way short, way long or my favorite, 5 yards out of bounds. Having big WRs is great, but you have to have a QB that will give them a chance to make a play. Maybe this will be the year when we see the guy running wide open down the sideline get the ball. BTW, I realize that a long pass is very hard to throw. My frustration is that there are few thrown and a lot of those that are have absolutely no chance of being caught.



  12. #102
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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by ajk4st8 View Post
    Scoring on our opening drive would be fun.

    We didnt do that last year.

    Havent scored a TD on the opening drive since OSU 2012
    And for the extra point try -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwtgVF3BMTg



  13. #103
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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beyerball View Post
    Couldnt agree more. Mangino called the plays from the sidelines and made great adjustments on the fly when at ku. He's a guy who knows what he's going to be doing 5 plays later. Blaney is incredibly smart and has been Mangino right hand man throughout which is why when he was hired the very first move was to get Blaney from the NFL. We aren't going to win the big 12 but I don't think people realize yet how much better our game day coaching on offense is going to be...going from Mess to Mangino and Blaney. Huge difference. This offense will be disciplined, simple, and effective.

    when arguably the current best offensive mind in cfball(Briles) calls you a stud you know you've got reason to go into the season optimistic. If ISU can't produce a semi potent offense in two years with one of the best OCs in the last 30 years then it prob won't ever happen.
    Great post. Agree 100%.



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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    "What do you think Mangino will do on offense?" I have no idea, but the guy is an offensive genius and the only limiting factor at this point is our talent level. I think a guy like him will mold the offense to our strengths and try to minimize our weakness's.

    A good friend of mine, who is an OSU graduate, asked me what I thought of the Mangino hire and I told him there is absolutely no down side. We get a former National coach of the year who gets to come in and basically do what he wants on offense. How can that go badly over time? He agreed 100%. Our biggest problem will be holding onto the guy. He'll jump to a head coaching job as soon as a suitable opportunity presents itself. Hopefully he'll have us improved enough we'll be able to hang onto one of his staff members or bring in a good replacement.

    Not sure if we should expect too much this season, but give him some time and watch out for ISU!



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    Re: What do you think Mangino will do on offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by clonedude View Post
    Another great point about the TEs.

    Opposing teams blitzed the crap out of us last year. Yet, once again, I never saw Mess make them pay for that either.

    Most teams have hot reads between the QB and TE or WRs. If the LBs blitz, then the TE or WR does not run the route that was called and instead just hits the slant over the middle to the area vacated by the blitzing LBs. But I never saw us do that once. It's such a simple and very effective hot read, and it takes teams out of blitzing their LBs pretty darn quick too when you torch them for an easy 20 yds up the gut a couple times.

    I just want to see an offense that exploits the defense for once. We always seemed to be running plays right into the strength of their defense last year.

    UNI game was another great example. UNI came out and decided from the get go that they were going to crash their DEs on our RB every single time on our read option and force our QB to keep the ball and run. Ok. Fine. So what was Mess's response to that offensively?

    Well, he decided to have our QB just keep it all the time and carry the ball more than the rest of our RBs combined. Problem with that was our QB got completely beat up. Yes, he got yds, but he got lit up play after play too. Basically to the point where he was ineffective by the 2nd half at doing much of anything.

    Why not send a WR in motion on an end around once in a while in that game? You fake hand it off to the RB up the middle as UNI's DEs crash onto him, and then flip the ball to the WR coming around in motion on a counter reverse type play.

    Back in the day, we used to almost always bring Lane Danielson and Moses in motion on these end arounds. Most of the time we didn't flip it to him, but when we did, it usually went for HUGE yards, and many times long TDs. And.... it kept the defenses DE's honest as well. Then, when the DE's are playing you honestly and guarding against the end around runs by the WR's, then you start gashing them up the gut again with the RB's until they decide to cheat to stop that again.

    A few end arounds to the WR's last year against UNI would have went for HUGE yardage. They weren't keeping containment at all on the outside with their DE's. Sam Richardson continually abused them on the zone read for not keeping containment, and ran for over 100 yds himself, but it took it's toll on him and ruined our season as well since he wasn't the same guy after that game.

    Here's one of the Lane Danielson runs that I remembered........

    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...Lane+Danielson
    And this is why Mangino will be a better playcaller than Mess. He observes, evaluates, adjusts, and transforms during the game.


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