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  1. #16
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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    I think I am being fair that Fred would have had a better record than McD during the McD years. Am I wrong? MVC sloball just did not hold up to B12 run and gun athleticism. It is not surprising that TCU is having a difficult time.
    I think that is fair. I think we would have been better than McDermott. But would we be as good as we are now? Would Fred have landed the transfers? I doubt it. And without the transfers, we don't go to three straight tourneys. While Fred has pulled in some impressive HS talent, he hasn't done it enough to build a roster. And without McDermott, we don't have Coach Otz.

    So you may be trading better McDermott years for a less impressive last three years. I would rather have what we have now.



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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCyd View Post
    Didn't Will announce he was leaving before GMac was hired? Whatever, is all this necessary? Do we really need former players telling us Fred is better? Next article...former ISU basketball player says water is wet and sky is blue.
    He did announce before Morgan was fired. I suppose he could have been tipped off. Morgan did not leave happy and I think he wasn't especially interested in leaving things in a good place here.

    It's all kind of interesting, but I really doubt that Stinson and Blalock would have stayed.



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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Stinson would have too hearing stories about him. would have been a scary team.


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    I bet he's a shoe in at Jimmy Johns though.

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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by IHavNoCyCash View Post
    Stinson would have too hearing stories about him. would have been a scary team.
    Stinson's floater was magic.


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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    I think I am being fair that Fred would have had a better record than McD during the McD years. Am I wrong? MVC sloball just did not hold up to B12 run and gun athleticism. It is not surprising that TCU is having a difficult time.
    Yes. I can't stress how bad of a coach McD was at ISU. He was seriously one of the worst coaches we've ever had.



  6. #21
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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by jsb View Post
    He did announce before Morgan was fired. I suppose he could have been tipped off. Morgan did not leave happy and I think he wasn't especially interested in leaving things in a good place here.

    It's all kind of interesting, but I really doubt that Stinson and Blalock would have stayed.
    Will and Curtis had worked with and got to know Fred, and to know Fred is to love Fred. I'm fairly certain they would have stayed if they knew Fred was the next head coach, especially since GMAc had a couple of things working against him from the start. He not only played a slow down style, but I doubt Curtis and Will thought much of him apparently calling Homan a thug in a game at UNI, which sent Morgan ballistic. Just a very bad situation all around and obviously Will and Curtis wanted no part of it. And I have no doubt Fred would have done waaay better than GMac. Fred is one of those rare guys that just seems to be excellent at whatever challenge he takes on. He's a winner and it wouldn't have taken him long to win at ISU and win big.



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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Sorry, but Ejim was not worth 5 years of McD.



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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by CYKOFAN View Post
    Will and Curtis had worked with and got to know Fred, and to know Fred is to love Fred. I'm fairly certain they would have stayed if they knew Fred was the next head coach, especially since GMAc had a couple of things working against him from the start. He not only played a slow down style, but I doubt Curtis and Will thought much of him apparently calling Homan a thug in a game at UNI, which sent Morgan ballistic. Just a very bad situation all around and obviously Will and Curtis wanted no part of it. And I have no doubt Fred would have done waaay better than GMac. Fred is one of those rare guys that just seems to be excellent at whatever challenge he takes on. He's a winner and it wouldn't have taken him long to win at ISU and win big.
    again, they announced they were leaving before he got fired. I highly doubt they would have changed their mind.



  9. #24
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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by jsb View Post
    again, they announced they were leaving before he got fired. I highly doubt they would have changed their mind.
    You said yourself they could have been tipped off, and do you really think the players didn't know what was coming two days before it was announced? And jmo, but I think JP had his sights set on GMac well before Morgan was fired.



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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by CYKOFAN View Post
    You said yourself they could have been tipped off, and do you really think the players didn't know what was coming two days before it was announced? And jmo, but I think JP had his sights set on GMac well before Morgan was fired.
    Actually, he didn't. He was pretty interested in Rob Jeter of Wisconsin Green Bay. In fact, I don't think he talked to McDermott until McDermott called Pollard and was interested in the job.

    McDermott was a good guy who was a disaster here as a coach. Morgan was a good guy who was mostly a disaster here as a coach. Morgan really shouldn't ever have been hired....we were lucky that he was willing to take the job since they lost out on the guys they wanted before him. You probably don't aspire to hire a guy that was fired at Long Beach State. He was more successful (I like to say he had 1.5 successful seasons---the NIT finals season was good, the NCAA team was half good. They were god awful until they pulled off some really great wins and got into the tournament). Morgan left the team in a huge hole when he left as the APR was a disaster. The scheduling fiasco was trouble and he was too much of a player's coach. A lot of respected Iowa State basketball figures thought that he was not running a good program.

    So the decision to let Morgan go was the right one. The hire that was made after that was the wrong one. Thankfully, that entire 8 year mess led us to 2010 and hiring a coaching genius who is not only the perfect fit at Iowa State, he would be the perfect fit at probably 90% of schools and 90% of NBA teams.


    Last edited by jsb; 07-30-2014 at 11:04 PM.

  11. #26
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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by jsb View Post
    Actually, he didn't. He was pretty interested in Rob Jeter of Wisconsin Green Bay. In fact, I don't think he talked to McDermott until McDermott called Pollard and was interested in the job.

    McDermott was a good guy who was a disaster here as a coach. Morgan was a good guy who was mostly a disaster here as a coach. He was more successful (I like to say he had 1.5 successful seasons---the NIT finals season was good, the NCAA team was half good. They were god awful until they pulled off some really great wins and got into the tournament). Morgan left the team in a huge hole when he left as the APR was a disaster. The scheduling fiasco was trouble and he was too much of a player's coach. A lot of respected Iowa State basketball figures thought that he was not running a good program.

    So the decision to let Morgan go was the right one. The hire that was made after that was the wrong one. Thankfully, that entire 8 year mess led us to 2010 and hiring a coaching genius who is not only the perfect fit at Iowa State, he would be the perfect fit at probably 90% of schools and 90% of NBA teams.
    A lot of opinion in what you've said, and that's part of what this board is for. But there's no debating that 3 winning seasons and 4 post season wins in 3 years is light years better than 4 losing seasons and no post season games in 4 years. It's also a fact that there are very few coaches in ISU basketball history that had a better first 3 years than Morgan. You can include Morgan's 3 years as a mess if you want, but I'll keep my great memories of the great NIT run, the Big 12 streak, the big NCAA win over Minnesota and the many great Stinson to Blaylock to Clark fastbreaks ending in a highlight pass or jam. I also loved everything about Vroman, Homan and Sullivan and the exciting games they gave us. We can at least agree that Fred is the man.



  12. #27
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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by CYKOFAN View Post
    A lot of opinion in what you've said, and that's part of what this board is for. But there's no debating that 3 winning seasons and 4 post season wins in 3 years is light years better than 4 losing seasons and no post season games in 4 years. It's also a fact that there are very few coaches in ISU basketball history that had a better first 3 years than Morgan. You can include Morgan's 3 years as a mess if you want, but I'll keep my great memories of the great NIT run, the Big 12 streak, the big NCAA win over Minnesota and the many great Stinson to Blaylock to Clark fastbreaks ending in a highlight pass or jam. I also loved everything about Vroman, Homan and Sullivan and the exciting games they gave us. We can at least agree that Fred is the man.
    Actually what he said about Jeter and McDermott contacting Pollard is pretty well documented, and I don't think anybody in any of these posts is saying that McDermott's years were better than Morgan's. You're right. They weren't. Nobody is debating that, and everyone agree's now that it would've been better to replace Morgan with someone else other than McDermott.

    I'm also not giddy about our NIT wins with a team that had Vroman, Homan, Sullivan, Stinson, Blalock, Jefferson, and Staple in the rotation. They had no business being in the NIT. They were an NCAA Tourney team and they would've made it but they couldn't do better than 1-10 on the road with the lone win coming at a poor Drake team during the regular season. You kinda sound like an Iowa fan flaunting "four postseason wins" when 3 of them were in the NIT.

    I completely agree with you that Fred is the man though.


    Last edited by Clone_12; 07-30-2014 at 11:47 PM.

  13. #28
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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by Clone_12 View Post
    Actually what he said about Jeter and McDermott contacting Pollard is pretty well documented, and I don't think anybody in any of these posts is saying that McDermott's years were better than Morgan's. You're right. They weren't. Nobody is debating that, and everyone agree's now that it would've been better to replace Morgan with someone else other than McDermott.

    I'm also not giddy about our NIT wins with a team that had Vroman, Homan, Sullivan, Stinson, Blalock, Jefferson, and Staple in the rotation. They had no business being in the NIT. They were an NCAA Tourney team and they would've made it but they couldn't do better than 1-10 on the road with the lone win coming at a poor Drake team during the regular season. You kinda sound like an Iowa fan flaunting "four postseason wins" when 3 of them were in the NIT.

    I completely agree with you that Fred is the man though.
    The poster was lumping the 8 years of Morgan and GMac together and calling them a mess, which I pointed out was unfair as the records and accomplishments of the two coaches were quite different. And while Morgan's first year wasn't stellar, we were coming off a year where we lost a first round NIT home game in LE's last year, so making the NIT final 4 was definitely an improvement, and especially starting two true freshman guards (I'll grant you very good ones). I just don't think Morgan gets the credit he deserves taking over the LE mess and giving us some pretty good years, just glad we can all at least agree what an incredible player, coach and ISU legend Fred is.



  14. #29
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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by CYKOFAN View Post
    The poster was lumping the 8 years of Morgan and GMac together and calling them a mess, which I pointed out was unfair as the records and accomplishments of the two coaches were quite different. And while Morgan's first year wasn't stellar, we were coming off a year where we lost a first round NIT home game in LE's last year, so making the NIT final 4 was definitely an improvement, and especially starting two true freshman guards (I'll grant you very good ones). I just don't think Morgan gets the credit he deserves taking over the LE mess and giving us some pretty good years, just glad we can all at least agree what an incredible player, coach and ISU legend Fred is.

    OK, admittedly, I wasn't the one quoted, but I have, in this thread, lumped Wayne and GMac together in the 'lost decade' comment I made, so I'll explain my perspective. I started my fandom with Johnny. I went to school during Tim and graduated with Larry. I judge Wayne and Greg on Johnny, Tim, and Larry, but I'm honest in the fact that Larrygate wrecked the start of Wayne, but the stink stuck because Wayne was part of Larry's staff. Had it been a clean break with a new coach from the outside, I think Wayne would have gotten a pass in taking over a dumpster fire. Because he was tied to it, and because of the perception that the inmates were running the asylum and underperforming during his tenure, Wayne picked up the taint.

    Honestly, though, despite the fact that I refer to Wayne/GMac as the lost decade, I still hang a lot of the blame on Larry. Had he not been a drunkard, we would not have had to quickly throw Wayne into the top spot, and then end up with GMac, who just doesn't work at that level. But, you can dig in further and say that had Tim not jumped to the Bulls, we wouldn't have ended up with Larry either.

    In the end, though, I can't say "eff that guy" to any of those coaches. Tim took the program to new levels, but started the ball rolling by jumping for the payday. Larry sustained the performance, but succumbed to his demons. Wayne got handed a bucket of poo (politically) and ultimately couldn't shovel it out as fast as he was letting it pile up. GMac just couldn't translate his game to the big time conference level.

    So when I lump Wayne and GMac together as a crap show, personally, I'm talking about where the program had been, and was starting to go, and then fell back to where it had come from prior to Johnny. There's minutiae that really point to things outside of Wayne and Greg's control, but as well, both of them had philosophical issues that they can't be absolved of.



  15. #30
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    Re: Will Blalock on Fred

    Quote Originally Posted by jsb View Post
    Actually, he didn't. He was pretty interested in Rob Jeter of Wisconsin Green Bay. In fact, I don't think he talked to McDermott until McDermott called Pollard and was interested in the job.

    McDermott was a good guy who was a disaster here as a coach. Morgan was a good guy who was mostly a disaster here as a coach. Morgan really shouldn't ever have been hired....we were lucky that he was willing to take the job since they lost out on the guys they wanted before him. You probably don't aspire to hire a guy that was fired at Long Beach State. He was more successful (I like to say he had 1.5 successful seasons---the NIT finals season was good, the NCAA team was half good. They were god awful until they pulled off some really great wins and got into the tournament). Morgan left the team in a huge hole when he left as the APR was a disaster. The scheduling fiasco was trouble and he was too much of a player's coach. A lot of respected Iowa State basketball figures thought that he was not running a good program.

    So the decision to let Morgan go was the right one. The hire that was made after that was the wrong one. Thankfully, that entire 8 year mess led us to 2010 and hiring a coaching genius who is not only the perfect fit at Iowa State, he would be the perfect fit at probably 90% of schools and 90% of NBA teams.

    Yeah, I can't tell you how upset it makes me when stuff like that happens.



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