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  1. #46
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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyFive View Post
    Side note....why is there no hoops forum on ISU's other message board on Rivals?
    They talk plenty of hoops onISU Confidential forum, they just prefer to keep everything on the paid forum.



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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by heitclone View Post
    Diante Garrett, Royce White, Chris Allen, Korie Lucious....Fred has had 4/5 * guys since he got on campus. Ain't nothing changed but the time. For 3 years now ISU has had the talent to beat anyone, last season was special but what if Royce and Co don't run into Kentucky....or what if they call a foul on Aaron Craft? Those 2 teams were sweet 16 caliber if you ask me.
    wuh?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecr...-Garrett-54348

    http://espn.go.com/college-sports/ba...diante-garrett



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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    ISU is still obviously an under-dog to the Kentucky's and Kansas' out there. All we need to do is beat them consistently and that changes. I think we are 'there' now. We are loaded. Time to start walking the walk.



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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by BWRhasnoAC View Post
    ISU is still obviously an under-dog to the Kentucky's and Kansas' out there. All we need to do is beat them consistently and that changes. I think we are 'there' now. We are loaded. Time to start walking the walk.
    This.

    Saying we should expect sweet sixteens is one thing. This is a recruiting thread though and saying we aren't still underdogs for most 5* recruits is very different.



  5. #50
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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by twocoach View Post
    Only 12 schools in the nation with more high ranked recruits and ISU fans still play the "underdog that has to get by with lesser parts" card? Sweet Sixteens should no longer be looked at as an amazing overachievement. Welcome to the world of EXPECTATIONS.
    According to this list, I see ISU being on par with schools 8-28. Schools ranked 1-7 do have much higher rated talent. So the argument of trying to do more with less only makes any sense against those schools.

    But I agree that Sweet 16's are the expectation now.

    But like someone else mentioned, counting all 4 and 5*'s as equal is ridiculous. More valid would be to have tiers of 1) the top five 5*'s 2) kids ranked ~6-35, and 3) the rest of the 4*'s. It seems like there's often a clear top few kids, then the lower 5*'s and upper 4*s seem pretty close.



  6. #51
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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dingus View Post
    According to this list, I see ISU being on par with schools 8-28. Schools ranked 1-7 do have much higher rated talent. So the argument of trying to do more with less only makes any sense against those schools.

    But I agree that Sweet 16's are the expectation now.

    But like someone else mentioned, counting all 4 and 5*'s as equal is ridiculous. More valid would be to have tiers of 1) the top five 5*'s 2) kids ranked ~6-35, and 3) the rest of the 4*'s. It seems like there's often a clear top few kids, then the lower 5*'s and upper 4*s seem pretty close.
    And I'll still argue that I'd rather have the third/fourth year of a kid ranked 35-75 than the first (and only) year of a kid ranked 1-10. Once the third/fourth year kid is done then there should be another third/fourth year guy who has been in the system for the last 2-3 years ready to step in. Just not a big fan of the college impact of OAD prospects so far. It's cool that my daughter got to meet Wiggins and Embiid and get her picture taken before they develop into big NBA stars but their net college impact was underwhelming. Maybe if they were added to a team with several 3/4 year guys it would have been different, who knows...



  7. #52
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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by twocoach View Post
    And I'll still argue that I'd rather have the third/fourth year of a kid ranked 35-75 than the first (and only) year of a kid ranked 1-10. Once the third/fourth year kid is done then there should be another third/fourth year guy who has been in the system for the last 2-3 years ready to step in. Just not a big fan of the college impact of OAD prospects so far. It's cool that my daughter got to meet Wiggins and Embiid and get her picture taken before they develop into big NBA stars but their net college impact was underwhelming. Maybe if they were added to a team with several 3/4 year guys it would have been different, who knows...
    It's an interesting topic to discuss. I'd argue the very top guys are still the top value even though they are OAD. The lower OAD guys probably are less so than the top 3/4 year guys. There are other intangibles to getting OADs though. You could probably also argue they require more recruiting "energy".

    When you factor in the unknown factor of some top tens become 3/4 year guys and some 35-70 guys end up OAD, plus some of each bust it's tough to answer.

    Sounds like an encyclonpedia topic.



  8. #53
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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by twocoach View Post
    And I'll still argue that I'd rather have the third/fourth year of a kid ranked 35-75 than the first (and only) year of a kid ranked 1-10. Once the third/fourth year kid is done then there should be another third/fourth year guy who has been in the system for the last 2-3 years ready to step in. Just not a big fan of the college impact of OAD prospects so far. It's cool that my daughter got to meet Wiggins and Embiid and get her picture taken before they develop into big NBA stars but their net college impact was underwhelming. Maybe if they were added to a team with several 3/4 year guys it would have been different, who knows...
    Really?? IIRC you thought Wiggins should be Big 12 POY (a reasonable position to have). Both players were top 20 players in the country last year, EASY.

    Comparing a freshman OAD to a 3rd/4th year player for one season only makes sense if the upper classman is a transfer. In that sense, yes, I'd take Kane as well. Otherwise you have to compare the 3/4th year player versus a top player for their freshman and sophomore years as well which doesn't look quite so favorable. How many players in the country would you really have taken over Wiggins, Embiid, or Parker this past season?



  9. #54
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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by twocoach View Post
    And I'll still argue that I'd rather have the third/fourth year of a kid ranked 35-75 than the first (and only) year of a kid ranked 1-10. Once the third/fourth year kid is done then there should be another third/fourth year guy who has been in the system for the last 2-3 years ready to step in. Just not a big fan of the college impact of OAD prospects so far. It's cool that my daughter got to meet Wiggins and Embiid and get her picture taken before they develop into big NBA stars but their net college impact was underwhelming. Maybe if they were added to a team with several 3/4 year guys it would have been different, who knows...
    So you would rather having Connaughton and Cooney than a guy like Wiggins? As good as those two guys are, Wiggins is MUCH better as a freshman than those guys who are going into their senior year. I have to call you dumb on this. The top ten or so prospects are freaks that are rare and years above the next tier of guys.



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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    The top level recruits, if they fit into the system and can play as a team, are way more valuable than most 3/4 year players. Look at UK for the prime example. When they had Kidd-Gilchrist and Anthony Davis they were an incredible team because they played as a team. The following year they had a bunch of "me" players and got bounced round 1 of the NIT.



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    Re: 4+5 star recruits


  12. #57
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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    I don't think the formula changes even with the success we have had over the past couple years. Getting a 5 star recruit to play for the Clones MIGHT happen- but alot of things need to happen:
    1. We need to have been in on the kid early
    2. The kid probably needs to be a late bloomer
    3. He needs to be from Iowa or the upper Midwest- so a big draw of coming to Ames is so that family can see him play.


    Fred's success is going to be built on 4 star recruits that we get in on early and continue to improve once they hit campus. Enough to develop into All Big 12 players. Bring in JUCO's to fill the gaps and look for transfers that fit our system and provide immediate help.



  13. #58
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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by isucy86 View Post
    I don't think the formula changes even with the success we have had over the past couple years. Getting a 5 star recruit to play for the Clones MIGHT happen- but alot of things need to happen:
    1. We need to have been in on the kid early
    2. The kid probably needs to be a late bloomer
    3. He needs to be from Iowa or the upper Midwest- so a big draw of coming to Ames is so that family can see him play.


    Fred's success is going to be built on 4 star recruits that we get in on early and continue to improve once they hit campus. Enough to develop into All Big 12 players. Bring in JUCO's to fill the gaps and look for transfers that fit our system and provide immediate help.
    If Seton Hall and Oregon can sign 5 star guys, so can Iowa State. LSU is bringing in a ton of 5 star guys and there's no reason they should be able to out-recruit Fred with NO recent success. Fred is the next big thing and recruits are starting to see it. It's going to happen.

    I think our best shot at a 5 star recruit (maybe even two of them!) is in the 2016 class with Coffey and Winston. Even Bridges, who we have a good shot at could be a 5 star recruit by his senior year.



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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomasrickj View Post
    So you would rather having Connaughton and Cooney than a guy like Wiggins? As good as those two guys are, Wiggins is MUCH better as a freshman than those guys who are going into their senior year. I have to call you dumb on this. The top ten or so prospects are freaks that are rare and years above the next tier of guys.
    Were Connaughton and Cooney guys ranked in the 35-75 range? Nope. I don't even see anyone named Cooney in the Top 150 of any recent rivals recruiting rankings. Maybe I'll bump the top end up to about #20 but that's about it. Thomas Robinson, Perry Ellis, the Morris twins, Cole Aldrich, Elijah Johnson, Travis Releford and Sherron Collins were all in the 20-75 range. Tyshawn Taylor was #77. I am sure the list is longer but I have to go to a meeting...



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    Re: 4+5 star recruits

    Quote Originally Posted by IAStubborn View Post
    Think he meant brackins
    ...who never played for Hoiberg.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisMWilliams View Post
    Fan-freaking-tastic. Love me some nhclone.

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