Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo - Page 10
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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by jkclone View Post
    Ok if it necessary to avoid the media outrage then you also have to take away all extracurriculars.

    I also still don't really see how the media is going to get mad that someone who the charges were dropped, had everything up to that point find in favor of him, and the accuser has been found to have lied is playing sports. Who knows though with the world we live on the media doesn't care about what's right only what sells.
    Just because the charges were dropped does not mean "everything was found to be in favor of Bubu". It just means that Bubu's defense was able to create reasonable doubt in a jury's mind, and the County Attorney decided it was not worth the time/money to continue to prosecute. You're innocent until proven guilty, but just because you cant prove guilt does not mean you did not commit the crime.

    Also, what extra curricular activities was Bubu involved in and how do you know those were not taken away?



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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by jkclone View Post
    The university president shouldn't be involved in decisions of athletic eligibility. If he thinks he truly needs to be then he should be involved in the athletic department process of determining eligibility. That being said the president should be allowed to take away eligibility through no extracurriculars or suspension/expulsion from the school. Even if there is truly a cause for punishment that doesn't take away the fact that the athletics was really the only thing that was targeted/punished.
    The "CEO" of Iowa State University should not be involved in a matter that has a potential to bring embarrassment on the institution? Wow.



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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4735 View Post
    The recommendation passed down to Leath was to expel Bubu, but he chose not to as the kid was a semester and a half away from graduating, and expulsion would of hurt the kids future. Kicking him off the basketball team does not hurt his future.
    Just because the prosecuter says the punishment should be something doesn't mean it is even remotely close to reality. How many cases result in a not guilty verdict? In each of those cases the prosecuter would have suggested a punishment for someone who is now not able to be punished because they were found not guilty.
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4735 View Post
    You can most definitely treat a student athlete differently then a normal student. They represent the university in a completely different way then you do.
    That is where the athletic department can do stuff. Those punishments don't even have to have a reason. If Bubu was kicked off the team through that method then there would be no questions asked but the athletic department cleared him and let him play half a season. Then they renewed his scholarship.


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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by jkclone View Post
    Just because the prosecuter says the punishment should be something doesn't mean it is even remotely close to reality. How many cases result in a not guilty verdict? In each of those cases the prosecuter would have suggested a punishment for someone who is now not able to be punished because they were found not guilty.

    That is where the athletic department can do stuff. Those punishments don't even have to have a reason. If Bubu was kicked off the team through that method then there would be no questions asked but the athletic department cleared him and let him play half a season. Then they renewed his scholarship.


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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneErik View Post
    Fact is, he didn't go looking for this. It came to him, and he had to decide something.


    When the details are known (and it seems like they will be), I predict that Bubu admitted to doing plenty wrong that normal people (and Leath) would consider to be violations of the Student Code. I know the judge overturned his decision and was critical of Leath's process, but I think lots of students violate the Student Code without being prosecuted. I also predict that we will find out that there were others who were advocating for the victim in a manner that targeted Bubu.



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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycsk View Post
    When the details are known (and it seems like they will be), I predict that Bubu admitted to doing plenty wrong that normal people (and Leath) would consider to be violations of the Student Code. I know the judge overturned his decision and was critical of Leath's process, but I think lots of students violate the Student Code without being prosecuted. I also predict that we will find out that there were others who were advocating for the victim in a manner that targeted Bubu.
    I don't think either of those would be too surprising. I also don't think anyone will change their mind no matter the evidence at that point. People will pick the part they support and drag this thing on forever.


    If this were in the past (further back), it would be a fascinating story filled with odd twists and turns. Too bad it's here and now, I guess.


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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by jkclone View Post
    I have no problem with him punishing an athlete including Bubu if it was appealed to him. I think taking away extracurriculars is a good punishment as well. That said Leath wanted to make athletics decisions when that isn't what his job is.

    I don't know I guess. I would assume he is but I don't see how that is relevant as I think it was clearly meant for athletics.
    Quote Originally Posted by jkclone View Post
    Do you even get what I'm saying. Yes he had to decide on something but he specifically singled out athletics. Why can Bubu play intramurals and do other things?
    So, you admit that you don't know if he was banned from all extracurriculars, which is an alright decision by Leath according to you if he was banned from all extracurriculars and not just athletics, but you continue to claim he was okayed to play in intramurals with no evidence that he was in the next post. Got it. Solid argumentative narration you have there. I don't see a single flaw.


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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    If both parties were black out drunk, why aren't we talking about the real alcohol problems that college students have? That would seem a better discussion than this ongoing he-said-she-said.
    Yeah, it seems like when it should be 'innocent until proven guilty' if both were blackout drunk does either of them have any credibility at all here? The important part of that though is that since there's no credibility there's almost no story here given its all he said she said.



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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4735 View Post
    The recommendation passed down to Leath was to expel Bubu, but he chose not to as the kid was a semester and a half away from graduating, and expulsion would of hurt the kids future. Kicking him off the basketball team does not hurt his future.
    Have you heard of this recommendation any place else besides this "anonymous letter"?

    The reason President Leath became involved was because the administrative judge ruled that the arguments presented in the case and/or evidence and interviews with the parties involved were insufficient to charge Bubu with conduct violations. At what point did this recommendation to expel Bubu cross the president's desk?



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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4735 View Post
    Just because the charges were dropped does not mean "everything was found to be in favor of Bubu". It just means that Bubu's defense was able to create reasonable doubt in a jury's mind, and the County Attorney decided it was not worth the time/money to continue to prosecute. You're innocent until proven guilty, but just because you cant prove guilt does not mean you did not commit the crime.

    Also, what extra curricular activities was Bubu involved in and how do you know those were not taken away?
    The defense did not create reasonable doubt with the jury because there was no jury. There also was no trial. Prosecution determined that evidence had been falsified and the charges were dropped before the case ever came to trial. If you're going to argue "how" things happened, it would help to know "what" happened.

    As for the rest of it "being in Bubu's favor", well - having the charges dropped was better for him than it was for the accuser. Then the administrative judge cleared him...another decision that benefited Bubu.

    When that decision was appealed to President Leath, he ruled against Bubu and the BofR rubberstamped that decision - both negatives on the talley sheet.

    However, Bubu's appeal for a temporary stay was granted and he was allowed back on the team until his appeal could be heard (next month, I think), so that ruling could be seen as being in his favor although he never played.

    When ISU's legal team appealed the judge's stay they lost. When they appealed that to the SCOI, they declined to hear the appeal. Two more positive tics on the talley for Bubu.

    So yes, I think you could say that a lot of things have been ruled in Bubu's favor...primarily the opinions rendered by presumably impartial prosecutors & judges (ie: people who had no reason to rule in a manner that would be to ISU's greatest benefit).



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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by alarson View Post
    Yeah, it seems like when it should be 'innocent until proven guilty' if both were blackout drunk does either of them have any credibility at all here? The important part of that though is that since there's no credibility there's almost no story here given its all he said she said.
    He said/she said? Not entirely. There was medical evidence indicating the activity was not consensual.


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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by ImJustKCClone View Post
    The defense did not create reasonable doubt with the jury because there was no jury. There also was no trial. Prosecution determined that evidence had been falsified and the charges were dropped before the case ever came to trial. If you're going to argue "how" things happened, it would help to know "what" happened.

    As for the rest of it "being in Bubu's favor", well - having the charges dropped was better for him than it was for the accuser. Then the administrative judge cleared him...another decision that benefited Bubu.

    When that decision was appealed to President Leath, he ruled against Bubu and the BofR rubberstamped that decision - both negatives on the talley sheet.

    However, Bubu's appeal for a temporary stay was granted and he was allowed back on the team until his appeal could be heard (next month, I think), so that ruling could be seen as being in his favor although he never played.

    When ISU's legal team appealed the judge's stay they lost. When they appealed that to the SCOI, they declined to hear the appeal. Two more positive tics on the talley for Bubu.

    So yes, I think you could say that a lot of things have been ruled in Bubu's favor...primarily the opinions rendered by presumably impartial prosecutors & judges (ie: people who had no reason to rule in a manner that would be to ISU's greatest benefit).
    I meant that the reason Holmes dismissed the charges was because the defense would be able to create reasonable doubt if it went to trial. I'm well aware it never went to trial.

    And if you read through all the stuff the op posted last night, you'll see that he is defending Bubu nearly to the point of saying he didn't do anything wrong that night since everything has been found in his favor, and my post was refuting that line of thought .


    Last edited by chuckd4735; 06-25-2014 at 07:53 AM.

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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by Incyte View Post
    He said/she said? Not entirely. There was medical evidence indicating the activity was not consensual.
    Do you have a source to cite to back up this claim?



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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by ImJustKCClone View Post
    Do you have a source to cite to back up this claim?
    Did you even read the linked letter?


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    Re: Dick Haws recent thoughts on Bubu Palo

    Quote Originally Posted by Incyte View Post
    Did you even read the linked letter?
    Yes, I did. And at this point, it doesn't appear that he has made any effort to determine the authenticity of this "smoking gun" document, or the info it contained...one of the first rules of reporting. What we currently have is an anonymous report from which he has extracted teasers to publish in an opinion piece. So let's try this again.

    Do you have any credible sources to back up this claim?



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