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  1. #106
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by jumbopackage View Post
    Well hey everyone! I feel somewhat uniquely suited to contribute to this discussion.

    First off, let's define some terminology here. Legally we have a class BB beer permit. We can sell beer and beer only in our establishment. If you want to consider that a bar, I guess that's fine, but we don't (and can't) serve liquor and we don't have most of the trappings of your standard "bar". We never really thought of it as a bar when we were building it, but more of a social gathering place where people can come together and hang out and enjoy our product. I guess that sounds a lot like a bar, but that's why we don't (generally) have TVs. It's why we don't have loud music blaring or a jukebox. And it's sort of why we don't have food. We didn't want to be a restaurant. What we have is something that isn't horribly common in Iowa, in general, but it is increasignly elsewhere in the country.

    We do have pretzels and such (that we don't generally charge for). We probably make ~15-20% of our revenue on non-beer items (shirts, glasses, taproom rental fees, non-alcoholic drinks, cheese trays etc). If we captured the sales from our food vendors instead of just letting them have it all (in part, because we don't want to make food, and in part because we want to foster the culture that food trucks help create), we would probably be pretty close to the 50% required by Clive code. We do encourage people to order food from other local establishments, or frequent the food vendors we have from time to time.

    We also don't encourage people to drink to excess in our place. We don't have drink specials (in general terms...occasionally we'll do a promotion for a dollar off a beer or something..but not like 2 for 1s or whatever). We charge a little more for our beer than we otherwise would have to, in part to keep consumption down. We've never had a single incident of having the police called to our establishment (except, apparently for kids playing board games). We close earlier than we have to to help with that too.

    I could go on and on about this part, but the important part to note is that we are trying to foster an environment where families won't feel out of place, and a culture and environment where people appreciate craft beer and consume it responsibly. Obviously on a Sunday afternoon it's a little different environment than it is on a Friday night, and that's a judgement call I would expect parents to make, and not us, or the city or whomever else.

    The reality is that we don't really have kids there very often. And when we do, it's generally either on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon when they are out bicycling with their parents and decide to stop in so mom and dad can have a beer and the kids can grab a root beer and an ice cream sandwich and play Dominos or Life or Monopoly or whatever, or perhaps on an evening when we have food and the parents just want to stop by quick and grab a bite from Melts Without Borders, Magnolia Kitchen, Guru BBQ or whomever else we get in. I know that's when my kids are there, and I don't feel bad about that in the least.

    We understand why Clive did what it did years ago, and it's in large part because a lot of bars in town are not responsible in the same way we are trying to be. For us, the taproom isn't so much about making as much money as we can. It's about changing the culture around beer from one of commoditization and mass consumption to one of responsible enjoyment and fellowship.

    So yeah, I get why people feel how the feel on both sides of it, and I'm not saying any of you are wrong or right, just kinda telling our side of the story.
    Here's what you do, use some creative accounting:

    You should record all the sales from your food vendors as revenue of your establishment and then just pay it right back out to them. It would put you above the 50% threshold and net income wise it would net itself out to where you are now.



  2. #107
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by MNCyGuy View Post
    Well this definitely sounds like a case where it would be nice if we didn't have to write laws to cover the people who can't be responsible, so the rest of us can have nice things.
    Clive has sort of a passive aggressive history with a few of the bars on 86th street when they've had some real problems in the past. That's what this ordinance stems from. They banned food trucks for the same reason. They would set up outside the bar at 3 AM and a bunch of drunk folks would come out and gather together and you'd end up with problems. And I totally get it. At the end of the day, it didn't stop those places from operating, and it probably didn't make them less of a problem really.

    Unfortunately, the hammer they use squashes a few fringe business cases like ours. We just want to find a way to make it work for us so we don't have to turn our place into something we don't want it to be.


    "Homemade beer, after all, is like a democracy. Every so often, youíre gonna hate what comes out of it. But when itís good, itís the best." - woot.com

  3. #108
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by isufbcurt View Post
    Here's what you do, use some creative accounting:

    You should record all the sales from your food vendors as revenue of your establishment and then just pay it right back out to them. It would put you above the 50% threshold and net income wise it would net itself out to where you are now.
    Someone suggested selling $4 bowls of pretzels that come with a $1 beer.

    There are lots of creative ways around it. Like changing what our "licensed facility" is and then allowing people to take beer out of it (which is totally legal in Iowa, btw) to the unlicensed part of it.

    At the end of the day, though, that just seems like it would create more problems than it solves.


    "Homemade beer, after all, is like a democracy. Every so often, youíre gonna hate what comes out of it. But when itís good, itís the best." - woot.com

  4. #109
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by isufbcurt View Post
    Funny because I grew up in Camanche and was regularly in bars as a kid in Low Moor, Preston, Goose Lake, Elvira and even DeWitt. We would stop on the way home from the races in Maquoketa or Farley, the adults would have a drink or two and I would drink my pop and eat the frozen bar pizza.

    Yeah, I was going to reply to trombone as well...Al mentioned growing up in Eastern Iowa, as did I.



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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Angie View Post
    Because it could be dangerous for the kids who are there if the crowd is there specifically to get drunk. There's usually a different atmosphere at a dedicated bar than there is at a sports bar/grill type of place. More fights, more tendency to get drunk - and that kid has to drive home with the parent who is there solely to drink.
    Gotcha. Unlike baseball games, concerts, or restaurants. Heck, some of the most uncomfortable times in my life have been in a tailgating lot. Talk about a combination of clueless kids, their distracted parents, and drunken pilots of 5000 lb motor vehicles.



  6. #111
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by jumbopackage View Post
    Someone suggested selling $4 bowls of pretzels that come with a $1 beer.

    There are lots of creative ways around it. Like changing what our "licensed facility" is and then allowing people to take beer out of it (which is totally legal in Iowa, btw) to the unlicensed part of it.

    At the end of the day, though, that just seems like it would create more problems than it solves.
    What did Knoxville do? Some sort of exemption if you produce what you are selling?

    Something along those lines would seem to be reasonable and differentiate a place like you guys from regular bars.

    Patio?



  7. #112
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by jumbopackage View Post
    Clive has sort of a passive aggressive history with a few of the bars on 86th street when they've had some real problems in the past. That's what this ordinance stems from. They banned food trucks for the same reason. They would set up outside the bar at 3 AM and a bunch of drunk folks would come out and gather together and you'd end up with problems. And I totally get it. At the end of the day, it didn't stop those places from operating, and it probably didn't make them less of a problem really.

    Unfortunately, the hammer they use squashes a few fringe business cases like ours. We just want to find a way to make it work for us so we don't have to turn our place into something we don't want it to be.
    I'm sorry Clive sucks so much. But at least they have red light cameras to fund thei . . . err . . . help keep people safe



  8. #113
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post
    Gotcha. Unlike baseball games, concerts, or restaurants. Heck, some of the most uncomfortable times in my life have been in a tailgating lot. Talk about a combination of clueless kids, their distracted parents, and drunken pilots of 5000 lb motor vehicles.
    I agree that those places definitely have an environment that's potentially unsafe for kids, but the purported purpose of them is at least different. If you go to a bar that doesn't serve food, there's pretty much no other reason to go (other than socialization - and, as I've clarified, I'm talking about taking a kid in at 10 p.m., not during happy hour). You'd hope that there would be something to keep the kids busy/distracted at a concert, baseball game, restaurant, or tailgate. And since there is another reason to be there, in theory you'd figure the drinking would be more curbed (I know that this isn't always the case).


    M 7/09

  9. #114
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Did I miss the "jumbopackage free giveaway" section of this thread yet?


    Hoiberg: I have a unique situation here. I grew up here. I went to college here. My family is close and my wife's family is close. I know everyone in the community and my family is very comfortable here. My daughter has dreamed about one thing and that's going to Iowa State. The NBA is great and I love the NBA, but I love Iowa State and the opportunity I have here. We've really built something special and I think we've got real momentum to keep it going even more.

  10. #115
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Angie View Post
    I agree that those places definitely have an environment that's potentially unsafe for kids, but the purported purpose of them is at least different. If you go to a bar that doesn't serve food, there's pretty much no other reason to go (other than socialization - and, as I've clarified, I'm talking about taking a kid in at 10 p.m., not during happy hour). You'd hope that there would be something to keep the kids busy/distracted at a concert, baseball game, restaurant, or tailgate. And since there is another reason to be there, in theory you'd figure the drinking would be more curbed (I know that this isn't always the case).
    That's fair. And for the record, I would never take my kid into a bar after a certain time.



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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post
    That's fair. And for the record, I would never take my kid into a bar after a certain time.
    I'm with you - I think that the only way an ordinance like this should be structured is if it either takes into account the type of establishment more closely (which can still be hard), or if it looks at time of day. Going to a bar with a child at 2 p.m. is waaaaay different than 11.


    M 7/09

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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by RubyClone View Post
    What did Knoxville do? Some sort of exemption if you produce what you are selling?

    Something along those lines would seem to be reasonable and differentiate a place like you guys from regular bars.

    Patio?
    Seems to me Knoxville knows the benefits of a business that is helping and promoting the community while Clive just wants to take a giant dump on everything. Can we just build a wall around Clive and Windsor Heights? They don't seem to play nice with the rest of the metro.


    Yeah TOAST!!!

  13. #118
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by RubyClone View Post
    What did Knoxville do? Some sort of exemption if you produce what you are selling?

    Something along those lines would seem to be reasonable and differentiate a place like you guys from regular bars.

    Patio?
    They basically exempted a taproom associated with a brewery from the regulations. Since the state has no restrictions on this, they can be in there basically whenever they want.

    We will probably be asking for something similar, maybe even with a curfew associated with it.

    It's not like we want a bunch of 16 year olds running amok in there, and I'm not really a huge fan of someone hauling their 5 year olds there at 9 PM, but I'd at least like the option for it to happen at times when it makes sense.

    Again, I agree with some in this thread that it's a cultural thing. We are just trying to promote a positive and, I want to emphasize again, responsible, culture around our product.

    At any rate, perhaps the debate goes beyond just us, and that's fascinating too! It's always interesting when these little questions open up bigger philosophical debates.


    "Homemade beer, after all, is like a democracy. Every so often, youíre gonna hate what comes out of it. But when itís good, itís the best." - woot.com

  14. #119
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Clive's next move is to start handing out BWI's. It a slippery slope.



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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by dmclone View Post
    https://www.facebook.com/515Brewing?fref=nf

    It sounds like the city of Clive is not going to let 515 have kids in their establishment.

    It looks like a solid majority of the people commenting are up in arms over this issue. I didn't post anything but I'm wondering if I'm in the minority here that thinks it's ridiculous and bad parenting to bring kids into a bar setting. Adults want to sit around, drink, and talk to their friends not have kids running around.


    Thoughts?
    Midday with food ok. Night not ok.



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