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  1. #91
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    So what does 515 actually do for food then? Sounds like they are getting nailed on a technicality?



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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonetrombone View Post
    Want to see me worked up? Lets start a discussion about babies in movie theaters...
    lol.

    Our city used to have "Taste of Iowa' festival downtown. with some name bands and has-been bands--concerts all outdoors--a few thousand people. good times

    Then I see some rube holding his 6-week old infant at 11pm near a large speaker which is blaring out big time decibels....

    I just wonder what some parents are thinking?

    Are you so irresponsible and cheap, you couldn't get a babysitter? (and endangering the health of an infant)



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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Angie View Post
    All of that being said - I think 515 isn't going to be the type of place to encourage its patrons to get trashed and bring kids. It seems like a classier type of place than that, so this ordinance is a bit restrictive and not taking into account the type of establishment.
    More classy than Whiskey River???? The 515 counting on the Rockefeller, Gates, Trump and Walton families for business? High class joint



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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by MNCyGuy View Post
    I think this is probably fair, although I'm trying to think of what scenario in which I'd even want to bring my kids with me to a non-restaurant bar. Some sort of private event, I suppose, otherwise if I just want a drink after work or something I'd grab a six-pack on my way home before I'd mess around with loading them up to head out to the bar. That just sounds like a pain in the ***.

    I don't have kids (which should be obvious) but this seems like a logical/rational reason to not bring kids to a bar.


    Also, not mentioned here but I'd like to address the whole rural thing. I grew up in DeWitt, IA, population 4900, at that time. There were/are 4 bars in town. 2 are straight up bars and growing up my parents literally never took us there. The other 4 served food, and had pool tables, darts and that kindof stuff. We frequented those regularly and played pool and all that jazz at those places. In small town Iowa, these places are often the only place to eat so there is no issue there.

    I cannot think of a single classmate of mine that was in either of the bars growing up, it wasn't appropriate or allowed or for the most part even in anyone train of thought to bring their kids to those places.

    Even in our neighboring town of Grand Mound, Iowa (population 500)... there wasn't this whole "Dad's bringing the kids back from Davenport but wants to swing by for a drink before going home thing." They would drop their kids off... and then go back to the bar. Maybe things were different in the west part of the state.



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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonetrombone View Post
    Want to see me worked up? Lets start a discussion about babies in movie theaters...
    Those people are actually the ******* worst. Out of context though, I think your other complaints about people with kids are a little harsh. You can't win that fight because as soon as you start opting out of stuff because you can't find/afford a sitter you catch **** for that too.



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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by KnappShack View Post
    More classy than Whiskey River???? The 515 counting on the Rockefeller, Gates, Trump and Walton families for business? High class joint
    I am thinking of the old, pre-remodel Whiskey River that didn't serve food. I haven't been in there since the remodel, I think it's more like a sports bar now, isn't it?


    M 7/09

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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by MNCyGuy View Post
    I think this is probably fair, although I'm trying to think of what scenario in which I'd even want to bring my kids with me to a non-restaurant bar. Some sort of private event, I suppose, otherwise if I just want a drink after work or something I'd grab a six-pack on my way home before I'd mess around with loading them up to head out to the bar. That just sounds like a pain in the ***.
    Again, it's a small town thing. In our case it was more likely that we were helping our dad work on the farm, and the bar was on the way home, and he saw someone's truck outside that he wanted/needed to talk to.

    It wasn't like "I really want to go out drinking, but have these damn kids with". It's very common for people to just stop for a quick beer or two on the way home, and not be the center point of their day.

    I'm thinking of going to Whiskey River or Sporty's (non-campus type of bars) on a Friday night at 10. There may not be a ton of fights, but I rarely see anyone in condition to drive a child anywhere. And it just seems a little bit rougher (language, things you see, etc.) at that time of night than if a child goes to a bar at, say, 3 in the afternoon to play Pac-Man while Dad visits. The intentions of the patrons are usually different.
    I doubt I was ever in the bar at 10:00 on a Friday as a kid. I'm talking about happy hour ish or weekend afternoon times.


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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Angie View Post
    I am thinking of the old, pre-remodel Whiskey River that didn't serve food. I haven't been in there since the remodel, I think it's more like a sports bar now, isn't it?
    I'm in the wayback machine too. Haven't been there since any renovation.

    Whiskey River Classic was good place



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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_4_State View Post
    Again, it's a small town thing. In our case it was more likely that we were helping our dad work on the farm, and the bar was on the way home, and he saw someone's truck outside that he wanted/needed to talk to.

    It wasn't like "I really want to go out drinking, but have these damn kids with". It's very common for people to just stop for a quick beer or two on the way home, and not be the center point of their day.

    Yea, that makes sense and seems reasonable. And I fully cop to growing up with parents that just didn't go to bars when I was growing up and probably never had anything heavier than light beer in the house.



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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    In the southeast breweries are distinctly different than bars and promote a family atmosphere, especially North and South Carolina. They even have family days where they set up waterslides, etc. Nobody generally goes to a brewery to get drunk, they just go to sample a few beers and the breweries aren't even open after 8 or 10 generally.

    Not sure how 515 is but unless breweries are far different in Iowa than everywhere i've been I don't really get the outrage acting like parents are taking kids to Cy's and staying out until 2 in the morning.



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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Well hey everyone! I feel somewhat uniquely suited to contribute to this discussion.

    First off, let's define some terminology here. Legally we have a class BB beer permit. We can sell beer and beer only in our establishment. If you want to consider that a bar, I guess that's fine, but we don't (and can't) serve liquor and we don't have most of the trappings of your standard "bar". We never really thought of it as a bar when we were building it, but more of a social gathering place where people can come together and hang out and enjoy our product. I guess that sounds a lot like a bar, but that's why we don't (generally) have TVs. It's why we don't have loud music blaring or a jukebox. And it's sort of why we don't have food. We didn't want to be a restaurant. What we have is something that isn't horribly common in Iowa, in general, but it is increasignly elsewhere in the country.

    We do have pretzels and such (that we don't generally charge for). We probably make ~15-20% of our revenue on non-beer items (shirts, glasses, taproom rental fees, non-alcoholic drinks, cheese trays etc). If we captured the sales from our food vendors instead of just letting them have it all (in part, because we don't want to make food, and in part because we want to foster the culture that food trucks help create), we would probably be pretty close to the 50% required by Clive code. We do encourage people to order food from other local establishments, or frequent the food vendors we have from time to time.

    We also don't encourage people to drink to excess in our place. We don't have drink specials (in general terms...occasionally we'll do a promotion for a dollar off a beer or something..but not like 2 for 1s or whatever). We charge a little more for our beer than we otherwise would have to, in part to keep consumption down. We've never had a single incident of having the police called to our establishment (except, apparently for kids playing board games). We close earlier than we have to to help with that too.

    I could go on and on about this part, but the important part to note is that we are trying to foster an environment where families won't feel out of place, and a culture and environment where people appreciate craft beer and consume it responsibly. Obviously on a Sunday afternoon it's a little different environment than it is on a Friday night, and that's a judgement call I would expect parents to make, and not us, or the city or whomever else.

    The reality is that we don't really have kids there very often. And when we do, it's generally either on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon when they are out bicycling with their parents and decide to stop in so mom and dad can have a beer and the kids can grab a root beer and an ice cream sandwich and play Dominos or Life or Monopoly or whatever, or perhaps on an evening when we have food and the parents just want to stop by quick and grab a bite from Melts Without Borders, Magnolia Kitchen, Guru BBQ or whomever else we get in. I know that's when my kids are there, and I don't feel bad about that in the least.

    We understand why Clive did what it did years ago, and it's in large part because a lot of bars in town are not responsible in the same way we are trying to be. For us, the taproom isn't so much about making as much money as we can. It's about changing the culture around beer from one of commoditization and mass consumption to one of responsible enjoyment and fellowship.

    So yeah, I get why people feel how the feel on both sides of it, and I'm not saying any of you are wrong or right, just kinda telling our side of the story.


    "Homemade beer, after all, is like a democracy. Every so often, youíre gonna hate what comes out of it. But when itís good, itís the best." - woot.com

  12. #102
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_4_State View Post
    Again, it's a small town thing. In our case it was more likely that we were helping our dad work on the farm, and the bar was on the way home, and he saw someone's truck outside that he wanted/needed to talk to.

    It wasn't like "I really want to go out drinking, but have these damn kids with". It's very common for people to just stop for a quick beer or two on the way home, and not be the center point of their day.



    I doubt I was ever in the bar at 10:00 on a Friday as a kid. I'm talking about happy hour ish or weekend afternoon times.
    Same here. I think putting a time frame on this ordinance would make a lot of difference, if there isn't one there already.

    Thanks, jumbopackage. :) I was hoping you'd be able to join us.


    M 7/09

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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonetrombone View Post
    I don't have kids (which should be obvious) but this seems like a logical/rational reason to not bring kids to a bar.


    Also, not mentioned here but I'd like to address the whole rural thing. I grew up in DeWitt, IA, population 4900, at that time. There were/are 4 bars in town. 2 are straight up bars and growing up my parents literally never took us there. The other 4 served food, and had pool tables, darts and that kindof stuff. We frequented those regularly and played pool and all that jazz at those places. In small town Iowa, these places are often the only place to eat so there is no issue there.

    I cannot think of a single classmate of mine that was in either of the bars growing up, it wasn't appropriate or allowed or for the most part even in anyone train of thought to bring their kids to those places.

    Even in our neighboring town of Grand Mound, Iowa (population 500)... there wasn't this whole "Dad's bringing the kids back from Davenport but wants to swing by for a drink before going home thing." They would drop their kids off... and then go back to the bar. Maybe things were different in the west part of the state.
    Funny because I grew up in Camanche and was regularly in bars as a kid in Low Moor, Preston, Goose Lake, Elvira and even DeWitt. We would stop on the way home from the races in Maquoketa or Farley, the adults would have a drink or two and I would drink my pop and eat the frozen bar pizza.



  14. #104
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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Angie View Post
    Same here. I think putting a time frame on this ordinance would make a lot of difference, if there isn't one there already.

    Thanks, jumbopackage. :) I was hoping you'd be able to join us.
    In Des Moines, kids have to be out by 9 PM I believe.
    Knoxville wrote an exception into their city code for Peace Tree, who is going after pretty much the same thing we are.


    "Homemade beer, after all, is like a democracy. Every so often, youíre gonna hate what comes out of it. But when itís good, itís the best." - woot.com

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    Re: Kids in a bar/Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by jumbopackage View Post
    Well hey everyone! I feel somewhat uniquely suited to contribute to this discussion.

    First off, let's define some terminology here. Legally we have a class BB beer permit. We can sell beer and beer only in our establishment. If you want to consider that a bar, I guess that's fine, but we don't (and can't) serve liquor and we don't have most of the trappings of your standard "bar". We never really thought of it as a bar when we were building it, but more of a social gathering place where people can come together and hang out and enjoy our product. I guess that sounds a lot like a bar, but that's why we don't (generally) have TVs. It's why we don't have loud music blaring or a jukebox. And it's sort of why we don't have food. We didn't want to be a restaurant. What we have is something that isn't horribly common in Iowa, in general, but it is increasignly elsewhere in the country.

    We do have pretzels and such (that we don't generally charge for). We probably make ~15-20% of our revenue on non-beer items (shirts, glasses, taproom rental fees, non-alcoholic drinks, cheese trays etc). If we captured the sales from our food vendors instead of just letting them have it all (in part, because we don't want to make food, and in part because we want to foster the culture that food trucks help create), we would probably be pretty close to the 50% required by Clive code. We do encourage people to order food from other local establishments, or frequent the food vendors we have from time to time.

    We also don't encourage people to drink to excess in our place. We don't have drink specials (in general terms...occasionally we'll do a promotion for a dollar off a beer or something..but not like 2 for 1s or whatever). We charge a little more for our beer than we otherwise would have to, in part to keep consumption down. We've never had a single incident of having the police called to our establishment (except, apparently for kids playing board games). We close earlier than we have to to help with that too.

    I could go on and on about this part, but the important part to note is that we are trying to foster an environment where families won't feel out of place, and a culture and environment where people appreciate craft beer and consume it responsibly. Obviously on a Sunday afternoon it's a little different environment than it is on a Friday night, and that's a judgement call I would expect parents to make, and not us, or the city or whomever else.

    The reality is that we don't really have kids there very often. And when we do, it's generally either on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon when they are out bicycling with their parents and decide to stop in so mom and dad can have a beer and the kids can grab a root beer and an ice cream sandwich and play Dominos or Life or Monopoly or whatever, or perhaps on an evening when we have food and the parents just want to stop by quick and grab a bite from Melts Without Borders, Magnolia Kitchen, Guru BBQ or whomever else we get in. I know that's when my kids are there, and I don't feel bad about that in the least.

    We understand why Clive did what it did years ago, and it's in large part because a lot of bars in town are not responsible in the same way we are trying to be. For us, the taproom isn't so much about making as much money as we can. It's about changing the culture around beer from one of commoditization and mass consumption to one of responsible enjoyment and fellowship.

    So yeah, I get why people feel how the feel on both sides of it, and I'm not saying any of you are wrong or right, just kinda telling our side of the story.
    Well this definitely sounds like a case where it would be nice if we didn't have to write laws to cover the people who can't be responsible, so the rest of us can have nice things.



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