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  1. #166
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by isutrevman View Post
    My point is that it is way too big a punishment when a single goal is worth so much, especially when a lot of them are the result of bad calls. Did Australia deserve a goal because the ball inadvertently hit a Dutch player's hand on a pass?

    I think the NFL pass interference rule where you get the ball wherever the penatly occured (resulting in possibly a 60 yards penalty) is too steep since it basically assumes the player would have caught the ball. This is a slap on the wrist compared to soccer penalty kicks.
    It has to be a punishment that sufficiently discourages the illegal play. Say the penalty on a handball in the box is a corner kick, people would be using their hands all the time to stop balls. If you use your hands in the box the other team gets an ~85% chance at a goal. If you interfere with someone in the endzone the other team has probably at least a 90% chance of scoring. Defenders know, or at least they should, that when you're defending in the box your hands need to be down at your sides.



  2. #167
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by 3TrueFans View Post
    Take the EPL this year as an example, 84% of penalty's were converted, while it is high I think there's still enough of a chance of a miss or a save while still keeping it as a punishment for violating the rules for the defense. It's not nearly as automatic as say an extra point.
    And that's why extra points are worth what they're worth and not what a touchdown is worth. You've made a great argument for the superiority of multi-valued scoring.


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  3. #168
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by RotatingColumn View Post
    One thing I don't think was touched on is the fact football requires such a broader range of skill sets.

    The tall skinny kid, the short fat kid, and every size in between can find a position on a football team. They can utilize their best physical property as a strength in their game. Speed, strength, height, and weight all come with their own strategic advantages. In soccer every player is utilizing the same basic skill set.
    Broader range of skill sets? I think you mean more specialized skill sets. Quarterbacks only throw, running backs run, wide receivers catch, and linemen only block. Offensive players only play offense, defensive players only play defense. In soccer, everyone on the field needs to be good at their position, but each player is not limited to one aspect of the game. Attackers can defend, defenders can attack. It makes for a more free flowing game.


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  4. #169
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by cbro31 View Post
    You still have to earn it. Penalty in the endzone is the ball at the 1 yardline, how many teams dont score in that situation?
    A goal in soccer is worth a lot more than a TD in football. Football scores aren't typically 7-0, or 14-7.



  5. #170
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by isutrevman View Post
    A goal in soccer is worth a lot more than a TD in football. Football scores aren't typically 7-0, or 14-7.
    It's a fairly small area of the field where you are at risk of giving away a penalty as a defender and since there is less scoring in soccer that danger area in front of the goal becomes much more important. If you illegally take away an opponents chance inside that area you should be punished for it.



  6. #171
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by isutrevman View Post
    A goal in soccer is worth a lot more than a TD in football. Football scores aren't typically 7-0, or 14-7.
    No, but there's no strategy involved with the score in soccer, at least not like there is in football. There's no debate between going for two and kicking the extra point, or kicking the field goal and going for it on fourth and short. It's much simpler than that in soccer, which is what he was trying to say. There is no way to get more than one point when you score, so all you try to do is put it in the back of the net. Hockey is the same way, although it has other elements that appeal to many people who enjoy sports like football.


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  7. #172
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclonez7 View Post
    Broader range of skill sets? I think you mean more specialized skill sets. Quarterbacks only throw, running backs run, wide receivers catch, and linemen only block. Offensive players only play offense, defensive players only play defense. In soccer, everyone on the field needs to be good at their position, but each player is not limited to one aspect of the game. Attackers can defend, defenders can attack. It makes for a more free flowing game.
    I don't think he was referring to individual players and saying Carson Palmer has a broader range of skills than Messi. A football team requires a lineup that includes a wider variety of skill sets. You need some guys who can catch, you need some guys who can run, some guys who can throw and some guys who can block, and you need all of those guys to meld together into a cohesive unit. Whereas a soccer team has a lineup full of guys with pretty similar skill sets (that also has to work well together).

    Not saying I agree with him, just trying to outline his argument a little more clearly.


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  8. #173
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Janny View Post
    I'm being totally serious. The variation in types of scores adds a layer of strategy to Football that Soccer just doesn't have.
    Football adds a more violent aspect that people are drawn to as well. It's not just a variety of scoring.
    That actually turns off a good number of people .


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  9. #174
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by isutrevman View Post
    A goal in soccer is worth a lot more than a TD in football. Football scores aren't typically 7-0, or 14-7.
    I don't understand how the point value has to do with having to convert a goal as opposed to just awarding a free point. If you are saying that a penalty shouldn't be awarded then I think you don't understand that he took a direct scoring chance away form Australia. Was the ball he kicked going in, no but perhaps the cross he was trying to send in to the other two players in the box could have been headed in.



  10. #175
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Is it football or handegg?



  11. #176
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by tm3308 View Post
    No, but there's no strategy involved with the score in soccer, at least not like there is in football. There's no debate between going for two and kicking the extra point, or kicking the field goal and going for it on fourth and short. It's much simpler than that in soccer, which is what he was trying to say. There is no way to get more than one point when you score, so all you try to do is put it in the back of the net. Hockey is the same way, although it has other elements that appeal to many people who enjoy sports like football.
    The ****? No I wasn't. You said that you can count on it going in so you can just go make a sandwhich. I said you still have to earn it. How do you get point differences out of that?



  12. #177
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by tm3308 View Post
    So just give the team that was fouled a point and be done with it. At least in hockey, a goalie actually has a realistic chance to make a save, which makes penalty shots a lot more exciting to watch. A penalty kick is practically a commercial break for you to go fix a sandwich.
    Would you want this to happen for free throws in bball too? Apparently Iowa would have lost even more games last year if what you are saying would become true for basketball.



  13. #178
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by abd4cy View Post
    Let me start this by saying that I only watch the world cup when I can cheer for the USA.

    I think a big reason why Soccer hasn't taken off here is because of the lack of non-stop action. I am not saying that there isn't action, but when you compare it to Football, Basketball, or Hockey (low scoring as well) the amount that happens is relatively low.

    Hockey: Really fast paced with big hits to keep you interested
    Football: Big Hits and Big plays
    Basketball: Fast paced and non stop action (except for the Big 10, I'd rather watch soccer)
    Baseball: Slower paced (I think this is why it has had a small decline with the casual sport fan over the years)
    Soccer: Not super slow paced, but a lot of the strategy is keeping the ball away when you have the lead. For example heading to corner at the end of the US -Ghana game. Since it's so hard to score it becomes a big game of keep away.

    Hockey, Football, and Basketball tend to keep your attention more because if you glance away you may miss something. With Baseball and Soccer you can run and do something because the likely-hood you will miss something is relatively low. The US is a fast paced Society, and I think we like our sports like that too. Just my 2 Cents.
    We must be watching different football



  14. #179
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    Quote Originally Posted by CyArob View Post
    Is it football or handegg?
    soccer = futbol
    football = handegg or American Football



  15. #180
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    Re: Why USA isn't a world power in soccer (yet)

    A long term soccer fan here (the first World Cup I watched on TV was 86 and FA Cup was 1987). I always tell people: if you like soccer, good, if you don't, that's fine. There's nothing wrong. I will not try to convert you. I have some sports that I don't like too.

    I can see some soccer fans turning others off by forcing the others to like soccer. It's my pet peeve. Same with a lot of fans saying we need to be respected. You don't whine to get respect, you earn it.

    However I can see soccer becoming more and more popular
    1. It's the most egalitarian sports. You don't always need to be fast, tall, muscular, etc. Maradona is 5'4 - 5'6 IIRC. Messi is not tall either. If you are not fast, tall or muscular, that doesn't disqualify you from playing.
    2. It's cheap compared to the others (the organizers make it pricier) - especially hockey and football.
    3. It's relatively clean: not many doping issues (at least not publicly), the only threat I see is the match fixing, but I would say right now it's limited to small leagues and teams (Eastern European, Asian and African teams).
    4. It's relatively safe: with a lot of emphasis on concussions on football, soccer is relatively safer than football

    Couple of things that might hinder soccer development
    1. Over-coaching/competitiveness - this has been discussed before and this happens in general.
    2. Greed: I hope the TV rightholders don't destroy soccer by charging outrageous prices to watch soccer. We've seen this happen to boxing: I can't justify spending 40-50 bucks for one PPV.
    3. Soccer as livelihood in the future: football offers future. Basketball offers future too. You'll get scholarship, opportunity to play professionally for a good money. A lot of kids play these sports because they hope the sports can positively impact their future. If soccer doesn't provide the opportunity, then it will not be the first choice.



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