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    Two News Stories that make me sick

    http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_782740...nclick_check=1

    They hired a lawyer...of course. Im pretty sure these kids asked for it and recieved. My pity is very minimal on this one. I feel bad for the tiger.

    2-year-old survives after being stabbed in the head with a screwdriver

    First of all, ew. 2nd of all, how the heck did it happen. Did the kid fall on it?



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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    Registration to read makes the baby jesus cry!


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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    What does it say? It tells me I have to register first.



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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    San Francisco Zoo officials Thursday said the enclosure for a Siberian tiger that killed a San Jose teenager and injured two friends in a Christmas rampage had a wall lower than they initially stated and below industry recommendations.

    Zoo Director Manuel A. Mollinedo also said he believes the tiger escaped over that wall, although police said they still don't know what happened.

    Mollinedo said the outer wall that separated 350-pound Tatiana from the viewing public is 12 feet, 5 inches high - not the 18 feet he reported Wednesday, and nearly 4 feet below minimum Association of Zoos and Aquariums guidelines for tigers.

    Mollinedo said the AZA inspected the enclosure, built in 1940, three years ago as part of its regular accreditation program and it "never noted that as a deficiency."

    "Obviously, we're going to be rethinking that," Mollinedo said. He announced plans to add surveillance cameras, new fencing and an electrified barrier around the exhibit in the wake of Tuesday's escape that killed 17-year-old Carlos Sousa Jr. of San Jose.

    The zoo will remain closed again today as San Francisco police continue their investigation. Police are still trying to determine how the tiger escaped and whether Carlos and his friends, identified Thursday as San Jose brothers Kulbir Dhaliwal, 23, and Paul Dhaliwal, 19, leaped over the railing and taunted the animal.

    San Francisco Police Chief Heather Fong denied reports that the men dangled a leg into the enclosure or that a bloody shoe was found within the railing. She said officers were studying a shoe print found on the outer railing to see if it matched the victims' footwear.
    "We have no information at this point that they did or did not go over the railing," Fong said.

    Fong added a few new details of how the attack unfolded. Officers were dispatched to the zoo at 5:08 p.m. The first to arrive went to the tiger grotto where they saw the dying Carlos lying on the ground in front of the exhibit.

    The police chief said it appeared the tiger had attacked one of the brothers first. Carlos and the other brother yelled to distract the tiger, which then turned on Carlos. She said the brothers fled back toward the cafe, where they had recently bought food, because "they knew there would be people there."

    Zoo staff led police toward the Terrace Cafe where they believed the tiger was headed, Fong said. In front of the cafe they saw one of the brothers seated on the ground, his face bleeding, crying "help me, help me," as the tiger sat nearby. The tiger attacked him again as officers shouted to distract the animal.

    Another team of officers arrived from another direction. The tiger appeared to turn on the police and "in order to protect the victim as well as everyone else in the area, they fired," Fong said. It was over in 19 minutes.
    Carlos' father, who said the family has hired a lawyer, on Thursday night said his son was "a hero" for trying to scare the tiger as it attacked the older friend. "I would do the same," said Carlos Sousa Sr.

    In another development, Carlos' father alleged Paul Dhaliwal lied about his son's whereabouts that day. Carlos' family was worried when he failed to turn up Christmas morning to open presents and began calling friends to find out where he may be.

    Carlos Sr. had called Paul Dhaliwal around 3 p.m. or 4 p.m. Christmas Day - just an hour or two before the tiger attacks. He wanted his son home to celebrate Christmas dinner with his mother.

    But Dhaliwal reportedly told Sousa he hadn't seen his son for days.

    "We're just so upset about that," said the victim's cousin, Christina Sousa-Habenicht, 26. "We feel we could have prevented something. We just have this huge 'What if? - what if we could have talked to him?' Instead his friend lied. What kind of friend is that?"

    Ever since the family found out the day after Christmas that Carlos was killed in the attack, they've been trying to reach the Dhaliwals' parents. They have left messages, but the family hasn't returned their calls. Carlos considered Paul Dhaliwal one of his best friends.

    "We have a lot of questions," the teenager's mother, Marilza Sousa, said Thursday. "We want to know how it happened, and only the two boys can tell us."

    Police visit hospital

    Police said Thursday that they have spoken to the brothers at San Francisco General Hospital, where they are said to be recovering well from their injuries and are expected to be released within days. But police would not reveal what, if anything, the men told them about the tiger attack.

    The Dhaliwal family remained behind closed doors at their San Jose home as reporters gathered outside. Court records indicated Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal have both been arrested on minor offenses this year.

    Paul Dhaliwal was arrested for being drunk in public on March 24 after being seen drinking beer and smoking marijuana at an In-N-Out Burger on Capitol Expressway. He was sentenced to attend 10 Alcoholics Anonymous meetings.

    On Sept. 7, Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal were arrested on charges of public drunkenness. Paul Dhaliwal was also charged with misdemeanor resisting arrest. They have a Jan. 15 court date.

    Zoo Director Mollinedo said Thursday that inspectors for the U.S. Department of Agriculture, which regulates zoos and other institutions that publicly display wildlife, will be investigating the tiger escape "from an animal care perspective."

    The Association of Zoos and Aquariums said the incident marks the first time an animal has escaped and killed a visitor at one of its accredited member organizations.

    'In good standing'

    Asked Thursday about the zoo's revised dimensions for its tiger grotto, AZA spokesman Steven Feldman said "we stand by our statement" on Wednesday that the San Francisco Zoo is an "accredited member in good standing" that "has our support at this difficult time."

    "Our accreditation commission will make a determination once it has all the facts about this incident," Feldman said.

    The deadly attack comes as an enormous embarrassment to the nearly 80-year-old zoo, the largest and oldest in Northern California. The zoo was just moving past controversy over the highly publicized deaths of two elephants in 2004 that prompted it to move its remaining elephants to an animal sanctuary.

    It also comes as an embarrassment for Mollinedo. The Los Angeles Zoo, under his leadership, was criticized for animal escapes a decade ago. Federal inspection reports indicated that over a 12-month period, a dozen animals at the Los Angeles Zoo escaped from their enclosures, including a gorilla and a snow leopard.

    The San Francisco Zoo is jointly managed by the city of San Francisco and the San Francisco Zoological Society, with a single management structure that oversees animal care, operations, education and public services. Funding comes from admission fees, membership dues, donations and the city.

    A six-member joint committee meets monthly at City Hall to discuss zoo attendance, building and maintenance projects, budgets and other issues.




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    Quote Originally Posted by brianhos View Post
    Registration to read makes the baby jesus cry!

    Weird, when I posted it, it worked. I didnt register and saw it. Now I get home and try to click on it and it says to register. Sorry about that.



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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    Quote Originally Posted by bostinelosd View Post
    Weird, when I posted it, it worked. I didnt register and saw it. Now I get home and try to click on it and it says to register. Sorry about that.
    May I reccomend you all to Bugmenot.com - login with these free web passwords to bypass compulsory registration



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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    It seems to me that the zoo was not doing a very good job of following regulations or anything like that.



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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    Very unfortunate for everyone involved, including the tiger.



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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    [quote=bostinelosd;299123]http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_782740...nclick_check=1

    They hired a lawyer...of course. Im pretty sure these kids asked for it and recieved. My pity is very minimal on this one. I feel bad for the tiger.

    Would you, if you were the parents, NOT hire a lawyer? I sure as hell would. A tiger just killed someone in a zoo! Unless the kids physically let it out I certainly feel pity for all involved as I guarantee they didn't ask for this. Yes, I feel bad for the tiger as well.



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    Tiger Attack Victims Drinking, Smoking Pot, and Taunting the Tiger

    If this is true, maybe the tiger was the true victim.

    From Yahoo! News

    One of the three victims of San Francisco Zoo tiger attack was intoxicated and admitted to yelling and waving at the animal while standing atop the railing of the big cat enclosure, police said in court documents filed Thursday.
    Paul Dhaliwal, 19, told the father of Carlos Sousa Jr., 17, who was killed, that the three yelled and waved at the tiger but insisted they never threw anything into its pen to provoke the cat, according to a search warrant affidavit obtained by the San Francisco Chronicle.
    "As a result of this investigation, (police believe) that the tiger may have been taunted/agitated by its eventual victims," according to Inspector Valerie Matthews, who prepared the affidavit. Police believe that "this factor contributed to the tiger escaping from its enclosure and attacking its victims," she said.
    Sousa's father, Carlos Sousa Sr., said Dhaliwal told him the three stood on a 3-foot-tall metal railing a few feet from the edge of the tiger moat. "When they got down they heard a noise in the bushes, and the tiger was jumping out of the bushes on him (Paul Dhaliwal)," the documents said.
    Police found a partial shoe print that matched Paul Dhaliwal's on top of the railing, Matthews said in the documents.
    The papers said Paul Dhaliwal told Sousa that no one was dangling his legs over the enclosure. Authorities believe the tiger leaped or climbed out of the enclosure, which had a wall 4 feet shorter than the recommended minimum.
    The affidavit also cites multiple reports of a group of young men taunting animals at the zoo, the Chronicle reported.
    Mark Geragos, an attorney for the Dhaliwal brothers, did not immediately return a call late Thursday by The Associated Press for comment. He has repeatedly said they did not taunt the tiger.
    Calls to Sousa and Michael Cardoza, an attorney for the Sousa family, also weren't returned.
    Toxicology results for Dhaliwal showed that his blood alcohol level was 0.16 — twice the legal limit for driving, according to the affidavit. His 24-year-old brother, Kulbir, and Sousa also had alcohol in their blood but within the legal limit, Matthews wrote.
    All three also had marijuana in their systems, Matthews said. Kulbir Dhaliwal told police that the three had smoked pot and each had "a couple shots of vodka" before leaving San Jose for the zoo on Christmas Day, the affidavit said.
    Police found a small amount of marijuana in Kulbir Dhaliwal's 2002 BMW, which the victims rode to the zoo, as well as a partially filled bottle of vodka, according to court documents.
    Investigators also recovered messages and images from the cell phones, but apparently nothing incriminating in connection with the tiger attack, the Chronicle reported.
    Zoo spokesman Sam Singer said he had not seen the documents but believed the victims did taunt the animal, even though they claim they hadn't.
    "Those brothers painted a completely different picture to the public and the press," Singer said. "Now it's starting to come out that what they said is not true."


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  11. #11
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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    Maybe they shouldve had a taller wall?? It was four feet lower than it should have been...



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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    Quote Originally Posted by Drizzle View Post
    Maybe they shouldve had a taller wall?? It was four feet lower than it should have been...
    And maybe they shouldn't have been standing on a wall taunting an animal that could easily kill them if given the opportunity. Sounds to me like both groups were at fault. Thus, we can treat it like a no-fault auto accident. Each party responsible for their own losses.


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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    If the wall is below standard then the zoo is at fault, I don't care how much they taunted the animal...



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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    Were the teens wrong to stand on the railing and mock the tiger? Yes. (More stupid than wrong.) Should they have been kicked out of the zoo had perhaps arrested? Maybe depending on the extent of their disruptiveness. Did they deserve to get mauled by a tiger? No way! You bet I'd sue. I hope the punitive damages are enough to shut the place down. I see younger kids doing stupid stuff like that all the time, so what if the victims had been 8 year old kids just being stupid instead? I hold the zoo responsible for both the death of the boy and the tiger. If someone climbs over the wall into the tiger pit, yeah, he's lunch. But people at the zoo shouldn't have to worry about the animals escaping.


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    Re: Two News Stories that make me sick

    Quote Originally Posted by CloneFan65 View Post
    You bet I'd sue. I hope the punitive damages are enough to shut the place down. I see younger kids doing stupid stuff like that all the time, so what if the victims had been 8 year old kids just being stupid instead?

    You just summed up what America is today. Lets honor stupidity and just brush it off as youthful ignorance. Then lets sue the place and hope it gets shut down so all of us who enjoyed the park and the animals have to suffer for their "playful ignorance" I once watched a video of a guy throwing sticks and rocks at a moose to be funny and then watched as the moose launched this guy 10 feet into a tree. Later on the moose was taken down by forrest rangers. My sympathy is low for people like these kids and that man. Lets be real here, the tiger never escaped before and Im betting never would have. It escaped because it was ****** that it was harassed. Had it gotten out by itself unprovoked, I would have had extreme sympathy for the kids. As I have read, these kids were no angels to begin with. You can cage up nature all you want but it will find a way out if you push it to its limit.



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