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  1. #346
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by RubyClone View Post
    I'm not so sure. I think it still holds for unlawful assembly 723.2. But not necessarily disorderly conduct 723.4 or Rioting 723.1

    Now, is it worth the effort, time, pr battle to do this for the police? Clearly not. And as expected, myself and others are being ridiculously saddled with the idea we want jail time and expulsions for those people. Which is stupid.

    Simply put, do the authorities legal standing if a pure bystander gets caught up in the mayhem if they cleared the street? I'd think so.
    Williams vs. Osmundson. Iowa supreme court clarified the construction. Here is a section of the ruling, pay attention to the last sentance:*

    " The General Assembly drafted the section tightly.
    The section contains two sentences. The first sentence defines the corpus delicti. If the corpus delicti is not established in a given case, the case is at an end and the defendant must be acquitted. The second sentence deals with the individuals who may be punished for the offense. Although the corpus delicti is established in a case, if the defendant's culpability is not established under the second sentence he must likewise be acquitted.
    The offense of riot contains several elements under the first sentence:
    1. At least three persons must (a) assemble together, (b) in a violent manner, (c) to the disturbance of others; and 2. One or more of those persons must
    (a) use unlawful force or violence against another person, or
    (b) damage property.
    If a riot thus occurs, a defendant can only be convicted of the offense if the defendant
    (a) willingly,
    (b) joins in the riot or remains a part of the riot,
    (c) knowing or having reasonable grounds to believe it is a riot.
    As to requirement (b) of the second sentence, a defendant does not join in a riot or remain a part of a riot unless he conducts himself in a violent manner under element 1(b) of the first sentence."



  2. #347
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Okay, will somebody please give me actual advice and not criticize me.

    As I said earlier in this thread (the post seems to be ignored), I actually saw David Irving moving a pole out of the road and it seemed to me he was clearing the way for help. I'm not sure if he ripped the stop sign out or what, but I'm just saying what I saw him do on Tuesday evening. I feel like I should tell somebody this information, but at the same time I don't really want to put myself at risk even though I did nothing wrong besides just being there. What should I do?


    Last edited by CycloneRoss; 04-10-2014 at 03:53 PM.

  3. #348
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Im pretty sure our new president has made it pretty clear the punishment for those involved will be swift and harsh, rightfully so. If it is proven he contributed, the student code says punishment can go all the way to being expelled. And I can't imagine CPR wants somebody like that on his team anyways. This isn't exactly the first time Irving has shown poor judgement either.
    I am pretty sure you are wrong. You don't kick a kid off the team for holding a freaking sign. There is no law against holding it. If it is proven Irving ripped the stop sign out of the ground himself, that would be a different story.

    You can put down the pitchfork and torch.



  4. #349
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by IAStubborn View Post
    Williams vs. Osmundson. Iowa supreme court clarified the construction. Here is a section of the ruling, pay attention to the last sentance:*

    " The General Assembly drafted the section tightly.
    The section contains two sentences. The first sentence defines the corpus delicti. If the corpus delicti is not established in a given case, the case is at an end and the defendant must be acquitted. The second sentence deals with the individuals who may be punished for the offense. Although the corpus delicti is established in a case, if the defendant's culpability is not established under the second sentence he must likewise be acquitted.
    The offense of riot contains several elements under the first sentence:
    1. At least three persons must (a) assemble together, (b) in a violent manner, (c) to the disturbance of others; and 2. One or more of those persons must
    (a) use unlawful force or violence against another person, or
    (b) damage property.
    If a riot thus occurs, a defendant can only be convicted of the offense if the defendant
    (a) willingly,
    (b) joins in the riot or remains a part of the riot,
    (c) knowing or having reasonable grounds to believe it is a riot.
    As to requirement (b) of the second sentence, a defendant does not join in a riot or remain a part of a riot unless he conducts himself in a violent manner under element 1(b) of the first sentence."
    Didn't I just agree with that? That they aren't charged with riot? But can be with unlawful assembly? And not even necessarily charged, but arrested under?

    I'm a touch confused, but I think we actually agree.... right?



  5. #350
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneRoss View Post
    Okay, will somebody please give me actual advise and not criticize me.

    As I said earlier in this thread (the post seems to be ignored), I actually saw David Irving moving a pole out of the road and it seemed to me he was clearing the way for help. I'm not sure if he ripped the stop sign out or what, but I'm just saying what I saw him do on Tuesday evening. I feel like I should tell somebody this information, but at the same time I don't really want to put myself at risk even though I did nothing wrong besides just being there. What should I do?
    Are you a student. Does campus have legal services? I may consult them and/or fire off an offer of witness to JP and see if they want to take you up on it - but that second part wouldn't be considered sound "legal" advise at all.

    I don't approve of the fact that people hung around. But I don't really feel they have to worry about being targeted for prosecution either. If they don't have you on tape doing anything, you're not worth their time or effort.



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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneRoss View Post
    Okay, will somebody please give me actual advice and not criticize me.

    As I said earlier in this thread (the post seems to be ignored), I actually saw David Irving moving a pole out of the road and it seemed to me he was clearing the way for help. I'm not sure if he ripped the stop sign out or what, but I'm just saying what I saw him do on Tuesday evening. I feel like I should tell somebody this information, but at the same time I don't really want to put myself at risk even though I did nothing wrong besides just being there. What should I do?
    I would start here: http://www.dso.iastate.edu/sls/

    Not sure how good they are but it is free. Of course, if Irving is charged with anything, you need to come forward as a witness.



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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneRoss View Post
    Okay, will somebody please give me actual advice and not criticize me.

    As I said earlier in this thread (the post seems to be ignored), I actually saw David Irving moving a pole out of the road and it seemed to me he was clearing the way for help. I'm not sure if he ripped the stop sign out or what, but I'm just saying what I saw him do on Tuesday evening. I feel like I should tell somebody this information, but at the same time I don't really want to put myself at risk even though I did nothing wrong besides just being there. What should I do?
    IAstubborn seems to think this ruling puts you in the clear. I am no attorney but I would agree. However, Leath has demonstrated that the student code is a higher standard. I still say you should offer your story to the Athletic Department, not the President's Office. You could always say that you will only testify at any student code hearing if you are offered some sort of student code immunity, even though you didn't do anything at the riot.


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    Re: Irving

    Quote Originally Posted by BigCojones View Post
    If there was any truth to him holding the stop sign, weather he knocked it down or not, the guy has a pea for a brain. He shouldn't have even been in the crowd. As soon as he saw what was going on he should have said to himself, I'm on thin Ice, I don't need to be around this, since absolutely nothing good can come from it, I better turn and walk away.
    But as everyone knows now he did not walk away and that's why he needs to be punished - rules apply to everyone even if we are woefully short of DTs











    The sky is the limit. We are trying to win every game. We are going to try to get to that big stage, the Final Four, and play on. Morris (May 2014)
    “If you take a look at this group, we’re extremely talented 1-15. We have a lot of talented guys in this locker room — all guys who are willing to put their agendas aside to win. That separates good teams from great teams.” Niang (Oct 2014)

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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by RubyClone View Post
    Didn't I just agree with that? That they aren't charged with riot? But can be with unlawful assembly? And not even necessarily charged, but arrested under?

    I'm a touch confused, but I think we actually agree.... right?
    Irving wasn't arrested. He'll lie about the reason that he was holding the sign - "der, I just picked up.."

    Will he receive any discipline from the ISU or from the coaching staff? Nothing more than a slap on the wrist. The ISU football program needs him too much due to the lack of depth and talent on the DL for him to be reprimanded with any severity.

    However, the football players should act in a manner beyond reproach. They need to be school and team leaders. They need to be friggin role models. Damnit!



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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by carvers4math View Post
    I would start here: http://www.dso.iastate.edu/sls/

    Not sure how good they are but it is free. Of course, if Irving is charged with anything, you need to come forward as a witness.
    Thanks, I got in contact with them.



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    Re: Irving

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonic1 View Post
    But as everyone knows now he did not walk away and that's why he needs to be punished - rules apply to everyone even if we are woefully short of DTs
    Huh? You don't punish someone for watching a crazy thing happen on campus. I see alot of people indicting people for watching this riot. Its normal human psychology to want to watch something crazy going on on campus.

    I guess if you mean run extra when you say punish, that would be more appropriate punishment for holding a sign.



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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    Agreed. So he should be disciplined consistent with the infraction. Did the girl in your dorm get expelled from ISU?

    I assume possessing to be a misdemeanor. Have other football players been kicked off for committing a misdemeanor? If the answer is no, then why the long thread on Irving...
    Actually, it was Wazzu, not ISU, and it was a long time ago (early 70s), so I don't remember. I do remember she moved out of the dorm, but I don't know if it was because she was kicked out of school.

    Actually, other football players have been allowed to play with a felony record to their name. Other athletes, however...that's a different story.

    President Leath has set the bar for punishments. I'm advocating that he stay consistent, or risk looking like he is letting outside influences determine judgment and punishment for him.



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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by ImJustKCClone View Post
    Actually, it was Wazzu, not ISU, and it was a long time ago (early 70s), so I don't remember. I do remember she moved out of the dorm, but I don't know if it was because she was kicked out of school.

    Actually, other football players have been allowed to play with a felony record to their name. Other athletes, however...that's a different story.

    President Leath has set the bar for punishments. I'm advocating that he stay consistent, or risk looking like he is letting outside influences determine judgment and punishment for him.
    Comparing a sexual assault case to a case centered around a picture of a guy holding a sign is ******* ridiculous and stupid. I don't care if he ripped the sign out, it would still barely move the stupid needle of that comparison. Can we stop acting like that case was the bar at which all punishment should be served? Besides that, HE LOST TO THE COURT ON THAT ONE.


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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneRoss View Post
    Thanks, I got in contact with them.
    Considering the Police have requested on numerous times people with videos to come forward and assist them in identifying the people doing the actual damage I doubt you're at any risk for what you are discussing.


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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by Tre4ISU View Post
    Comparing a sexual assault case to a case centered around a picture of a guy holding a sign is ******* ridiculous and stupid. I don't care if he ripped the sign out, it would still barely move the stupid needle of that comparison. Can we stop acting like that case was the bar at which all punishment should be served? Besides that, HE LOST TO THE COURT ON THAT ONE.
    That's your version. And by the way, he HAS NOT lost to the court on that one. His charges were dropped...just like David Irving's domestic assault charges were dropped.

    However, it was President Leath who stated in his press conference that any student found to have participated in the mob scene on Welch two nights ago would (in addition to any legal charges) face student conduct code charges, with punishment up to and including expulsion. HE set that bar. He also set the bar on how he gets involved in conduct cases, and the actions his administration takes once he becomes involved. I expect him to do no less with any of the students involved even peripherally on Tuesday night. If it was serious enough to cancel VEISHEA for all of the rest of the student body, it's serious enough to seek out and punish the students who took part. You can't have it both ways.



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