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  1. #331
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUCyclones2015 View Post
    Everyone in this picture should be arrested and fined too

    im taking it to the board of education, kick them all out of school but still charge them for 4 years of tuition!



  2. #332
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUCyclones2015 View Post
    I'll give you my reason for not trying to stop it: I didn't want to get mixed up with drunken idiots who are acting violently already.

    I don't blame you. However, if no one steps up to help in situations like this, then they tend to get worse and with rising consequences. And in this situation, the main perpetrators may be drunk, but they don't seem very violent. It is more like being crazy and having fun. I think a little self-policing by the mob could have minimized the damage . . . and saved VEISHEA.



  3. #333
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by RubyClone View Post
    Really - that's the argument you're going with? The obvious media and other sorts with the unobvious bystanders, encouragers and true miscreants? Really?

    Were there "riot team" id tags or tshirts that particularly identified the true rioters, I'm not aware of?

    It's pretty simple to use common sense on what these statues mean and what they are there for. Lost on many here.

    I think what you guys are (intentionally) missing is these statutes are written in such a manner to protect law enforcement and their actions. Especially in situations that aren't black and white, but very grey. You may not have been doing anything. But according to the statute you were there and part of an unlawful gathering by staying, commiting a misdemeanor if you didn't leave when instructed. And if they arrested you with out a picture of you throwing a bottle - then they have grounds. And all your crying about the nitpick translation of the statute won't mean jack.
    I'm telling you this because of something my roommate went through in 2004. There was a picture floating around the internet after the 2004 riots making it look like he just threw something, although he did nothing but stand there and watch. He followed up with an attorney who told him pretty much what I wrote, that as long as you didn't do anything violent or illegal, you are not criminally reasonable in any way. You have every right to stand on a public sidewalk. If the cops did not tell you to leave, and you did nothing wrong, you are fine.



  4. #334
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4735 View Post
    I'm telling you this because of something my roommate went through in 2004. There was a picture floating around the internet after the 2004 riots making it look like he just threw something, although he did nothing but stand there and watch. He followed up with an attorney who told him pretty much what I wrote, that as long as you didn't do anything violent or illegal, you are not criminally reasonable in any way. You have every right to stand on a public sidewalk. If the cops did not tell you to leave, and you did nothing wrong, you are fine.
    That's been the presumption all along. As long as you leave.

    Of course the immediate argument sent back was "well what if I couldn't hear them?" Just stupid ****... And I'm sorry, but even though I have no audio or video, I'm not really buying this idea that **** is getting tosses left and right, stuff being damaged, etc - and no order to disperse was made.

    And that's also not to say that a lawyer or solid reasoning can't get you out of it. But as you're saying yourself, your roommate went through this because of these statutes, correct?


    Last edited by RubyClone; 04-10-2014 at 03:58 PM.

  5. #335
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by RubyClone View Post
    That's been the presumption all along.

    Of course the immediate argument sent back was "well what if I couldn't hear them?" Just stupid ****...

    And that's also not to say that a lawyer or solid reasoning can't get you out of it. But as you're saying yourself, your roommate went through this because of these statutes, correct?
    Well if the cops asked them to leave and they did not, completely different story. The assumption that they want you to leave id obvious, but until they officially say it, you're fine.

    Back in 2004, the police were doing the same thing they are now, using pictures to prosecute. My roommate was just nervous that the pic could end up hurting him, so he followed up with an attorney. We were not smart enough to look at Iowa Code.



  6. #336
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4735 View Post
    I'm telling you this because of something my roommate went through in 2004. There was a picture floating around the internet after the 2004 riots making it look like he just threw something, although he did nothing but stand there and watch. He followed up with an attorney who told him pretty much what I wrote, that as long as you didn't do anything violent or illegal, you are not criminally reasonable in any way. You have every right to stand on a public sidewalk. If the cops did not tell you to leave, and you did nothing wrong, you are fine.
    Show me one person in these videos who was standing on a sidewalk, hands in his pockets, not doing anything. Everyone there had a phone out, was taking pictures, telling their friends to come, chanting, what have you.

    If you were out on the streets in the mob on Tuesday night, you helped cause a riot. You helped end VEISHEA. Stop trying to give yourself excuses.



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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    The interesting thing about self righteous people is that they don't see their own sin while calling out the sin of others.



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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by Primetime26 View Post
    your a moron
    Whoops!



  9. #339
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by RubyClone View Post
    Probably not. But explain to me how the police are supposed to know that nobody in that crowd is throwing stuff or engaging in any other activity. Or soon will? How are they supposed to realistically engage the actual problem while they have an entire mob that could also turn on them at any point?

    I know you get the point. I know you and others are being intentionally stubborn about it cause you like to make up bs arguments and maintain the idea that you can do whatever you want, whenever, whereever just because you can.

    But fact is that you and people who stuck around, put the police and others at further risk.
    If the police told bystanders to disperse you are right they committed a crime if they did not comply. You are also right they aren't helping and may be making matters worse. But that is not the same as being in violation of unlawful assembly or rioting it is guilty of failure to disperse. I have heard nobody say the police asked bystanders to disperse. Their has to be an order and you have to be in reasonable proximity of said order to be guilty.


    Last edited by IAStubborn; 04-10-2014 at 04:19 PM.

  10. #340
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by Section110 View Post
    Lol so now throwing a 12 oz beer can (if full) or an empty beer can is somehow worse than wielding a 20-30 pound stop sign and pole?

    Come on guys! This is so ridiculous. Let's just say whatever we need to say to make us feel like David Irving is innocent here.... Clearly he was just trying to tell all of the rioters to STOP!
    so now you were jumping to the conclusion that David Irving was wielding the stop sign as a weapon? based on what? carrying the sign does not mean that he broke it off.



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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by IAStubborn View Post
    If the police told bystanders to dispose you are right they committed a crime if they did not comply. You are also right they aren't helping and may be making matters worse. But that is not the same as being in violation of unlawful assembly or rioting.

    I'm having a hard time picturing that. Is it something like this?



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  12. #342
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by mt85 View Post
    The interesting thing about self righteous people is that they don't see their own sin while calling out the sin of others.
    Everybody is blinded to their own sin...some more so, others less so. That doesn't mean we should all sit back, stick our heads in the sand, and condone stupid behavior when it happens.


    Last edited by jbhtexas; 04-10-2014 at 04:24 PM.
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  13. #343
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    so now you were jumping to the conclusion that David Irving was wielding the stop sign as a weapon? based on what? carrying the sign does not mean that he broke it off.
    Please show me where I said it was a weapon... I'll wait.

    Was the street light a weapon? No of course not, but that didn't prevent it from hurting someone when some drunk idiots tore it down. I promise you that stop sign and pole he's walking around with is not lite. Would it cause someone to get flown to the hospital? Probably not, but in the hands of a big drunk guy in a crowd of people it isn't exactly safe either. Especially when you're comparing it to a beer can.

    Officers! Arrest the guys throwing beer cans! Butttttt... please ignore the huge football player holding a big metal pole with a metal stop sign attached to it!


    Last edited by Section110; 04-10-2014 at 04:28 PM.

  14. #344
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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by IAStubborn View Post
    If the police told bystanders to dispose you are right they committed a crime if they did not comply. You are also right they aren't helping and may be making matters worse. But that is not the same as being in violation of unlawful assembly or rioting.
    I'm not so sure. I think it still holds for unlawful assembly 723.2. But not necessarily disorderly conduct 723.4 or Rioting 723.1

    Now, is it worth the effort, time, pr battle to do this for the police? Clearly not. And as expected, myself and others are being ridiculously saddled with the idea we want jail time and expulsions for those people. Which is stupid.

    Simply put, do the authorities legal standing if a pure bystander gets caught up in the mayhem if they cleared the street? I'd think so.



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    Re: Irving Pic Holding Stop Sign At Riot

    Quote Originally Posted by VeloClone View Post
    I'm having a hard time picturing that. Is it something like this?

    Darn auto correct thanks for catching ;)



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