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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Kirk Ferentz. Iowa did exactly what some of you are saying we should do now. Kirk was going to leave for the pros. Offer him big money. How did that turn out?



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneErik View Post
    Don't underestimate us. There's a whole new generation falling in love with Fred right now, and he's doing things here that no one else ever has. Piece by piece, we're finding out that ISU basketball revolves around Fred Hoiberg, and really has for a long, long time.

    I am now apt to think of the lost decade as when we tried to escape the gravity of Fred's dreaminess, only to realize later on that it's too strong. And then, something, something...if you love it, set it free, something, something.




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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    Kirk Ferentz. Iowa did exactly what some of you are saying we should do now. Kirk was going to leave for the pros. Offer him big money. How did that turn out?
    Don't you ever compare Hoiberg to Ferentz ever again in any shape or form.



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    It is your type of mindset that ended up with Ferentz becoming the $4 million man. How did that turn out?
    Are you serious? Very well. I would have loved to see Ferentz walk and they have to hire someone new after 2002. Iowa's success over the past 15 years is perhaps unparalleled in their history, at worst second best 15 year run. They are printing money at a clip even they have never seen and they have two BCS games.

    Even then, comparing Ferentz and what he means to Iowa football to Fred and Iowa State University is a joke. It is also just downright stupid to think Fred is going to sit there counting his money if by some chance things went poorly. It is essentially a no risk situation to offer make him paid his market value.


    Last edited by swarthmoreCY; 03-24-2014 at 11:33 PM.

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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    No one is arguing that Fred should be paid well. I guess it comes down to what satisfies Fred in terms of compensation at a Big 12 school that has the smallest Athletic Department budget. And which made a whopping $121,000 profit in 2012. Like it or not, we either need to jack up prices for basketball tickets by a bunch with no more of these $99 season tickets if we are to pay what some are suggesting we should pay Fred.
    Serious question, do you know why they offered $99 tickets?

    Edit: after reading the rest of your responses, you don't. So let me explain it to you.

    They sold them at a huge discount just to sell them and get what revenue they could, you know better than empty seats. Now, you can increase the value of those seats 100 or 200 percent. College athletics is a business. We can now command that money for those seats. To the poster that said he'd stop buying, sorry. But there will be more people in line to buy them.

    And the only similarities between Fred and Ferentz is that they both coach in the state of Iowa. Fred is Ames and Iowa State, Kirk is the caretaker of a program for a period of time.

    I'm not even sure what Fred wants for resources, but Jamie Pollard let's Fred go over penny pinching, he will be gone right after. I like Jamie, and know that he's smart enough to realize this. If and when Fred leaves, it won't be because Jamie didn't do enough.



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    Are you serious? Very well. I would have loved to see Ferentz walk and they have to hire someone new after 2002. Iowa's success over the past 15 years is perhaps unparalleled in their history, at worst second best 15 year run. They are printing money at a clip even they have never seen and they have two BCS games.

    Even then, comparing Ferentz and what he means to Iowa football to Fred and Iowa State University is a joke. It is also just downright stupid to think Fred is going to sit there counting his money if by some chance things went poorly. It is essentially a no risk situation to offer make him paid his market value.
    We have had some success. But we are not at an Elite Level.......yet. Now is not the time to over react and pay $3 million plus for our young coach. His time will come IMO. I love Fred. We are a good fit for him and he for us. We have made the Sweet Sixteen. We have not won the National Championship. Keep it in perspective.



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    We have had some success. But we are not at an Elite Level.......yet. Now is not the time to over react and pay $3 million plus for our young coach. His time will come IMO. I love Fred. We are a good fit for him and he for us. We have made the Sweet Sixteen. We have not won the National Championship. Keep it in perspective.
    You sound like an Iowa fan. First, he is NOT making market value now. He's just not.

    Second, if he were to start to have some problems at Iowa State, he'd leave for the NBA (who would still want him if he sucked at Iowa State), so it would never be a Captain Kirk situation with Hoiberg.

    I find it odd that an Iowa State fan would be so against paying a coach their fair market value.



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by SammyWild View Post
    Serious question, do you know why they offered $99 tickets?

    Edit: after reading the rest of your responses, you don't. So let me explain it to you.

    They sold them at a huge discount just to sell them and get what revenue they could, you know better than empty seats. Now, you can increase the value of those seats 100 or 200 percent. College athletics is a business. We can now command that money for those seats. To the poster that said he'd stop buying, sorry. But there will be more people in line to buy them.

    And the only similarities between Fred and Ferentz is that they both coach in the state of Iowa. Fred is Ames and Iowa State, Kirk is the caretaker of a program for a period of time.

    I'm not even sure what Fred wants for resources, but Jamie Pollard let's Fred go over penny pinching, he will be gone right after. I like Jamie, and know that he's smart enough to realize this. If and when Fred leaves, it won't be because Jamie didn't do enough.
    Two sides to that: College athletics is specifically not a business, or a non-profit one. The idea of cashing in on college sports is a little bit touchy, probably especially for Iowans.

    There will always be an entry-level price point ticket price. There has to be in order to bring people in. It doesn't need to be $99, as awesome as that was. It probably doesn't need to be $200 in central Iowa, although that wouldn't rule me out.


    Since we are an elite team now, let's go get that One Cyclone Moment.
    Make this one for the ages!




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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    We have had some success. But we are not at an Elite Level.......yet. Now is not the time to over react and pay $3 million plus for our young coach. His time will come IMO. I love Fred. We are a good fit for him and he for us. We have made the Sweet Sixteen. We have not won the National Championship. Keep it in perspective.
    1.)You call it over-reacting, but it is actually about not being reactionary. You do not make contracts based on what someone has accomplished, you pay for what they will accomplish. You also do not pay based on what someone else is getting somewhere else. This market is not that competitive. There are not ready substitutes. Ben Howland went to 3 FF in 8 eight years, but was fired because of what they thought he was going to do. Of course, what they have done is often a large input into estimating what they can do, and thus their value.

    2..) You do not solely decide what the market value is. Other suitors will not wait for you to make up your mind. Fred's market value is high, but before you think that is too high for ISU to pay...

    3.) you better consider the alternative. Offering Fred $3 million as opposed to 2.25 or 2.5 is nothing considering the transaction and delay costs of getting an equal revenue generating replacement (see 2002-2012) Which, when considering externaliites with very real monetary consequences, is almost impossible.

    The going rate for a young college coach like Fred is easily around 2.25 to 2.5 million in the college market. It would not be easy to hire a major conference coach with 3 tournaments in the last 5 years, let alone 3 for 3, for anything less. If we want a coach that looks to have as much success, we will have to pay that at some point. Either that, or you go with the cheap blindfold selection that took us through the 10 years of 2002-12.

    4.) Risk-reward- Due to the NBA and his unprecedented success at ISU, his market value is probably near $3, maybe north of that given Stevens got 3.66 What are the risks of offering him $3 as opposed to the $2.5 that is the rate for his replacement? Do you think if the unimaginable happens and things go sideways, Fred is going to sit there counting C-notes? Nope.It would take some real poor leadership to fret over paying around another 500k now, or to wait and make such an offer when his market value has increased yet again.

    Some may say, but "he is not looking to leave", "he is not going to leverage the University to pay him that. Fred is not about the money". One way to make it about the money is to always drag your feet on what amounts to such a small amount relative to what he brings for the entire Iowa State University brand.

    It is about appreciation, and a big way to do that is to have the faith to do it now, especially considering how little added risk it would be.


    Last edited by swarthmoreCY; 03-25-2014 at 01:22 AM.

  10. #115
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by jsb View Post
    You sound like an Iowa fan. First, he is NOT making market value now. He's just not.

    Second, if he were to start to have some problems at Iowa State, he'd leave for the NBA (who would still want him if he sucked at Iowa State), so it would never be a Captain Kirk situation with Hoiberg.

    I find it odd that an Iowa State fan would be so against paying a coach their fair market value.
    Tell me. What is market value for a 4th year coach at a Big 12 school? Tell us.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanri...all-coaches-2/


    College coaches are paid accordingly. According to data compiled by USA Today, there are 35 coaches whose salaries cross the million-dollar threshold, of which 14 pull in more than $2 million. Generally speaking, those making the bigger bucks are worth it. The average seven-figure coach has notched 17 years of service time, taken his schools to the NCAA tournament in 10 of them, while winning 69% of his games overall (average annual record: 22-10). Altogether, the group boasts 51 Final Four appearances and 13 national titles.


    Last edited by Stormin; 03-25-2014 at 01:10 AM.

  11. #116
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneErik View Post
    Two sides to that: College athletics is specifically not a business, or a non-profit one. The idea of cashing in on college sports is a little bit touchy, probably especially for Iowans.

    There will always be an entry-level price point ticket price. There has to be in order to bring people in. It doesn't need to be $99, as awesome as that was. It probably doesn't need to be $200 in central Iowa, although that wouldn't rule me out.

    I understand this, I really do. Part of the downside to living somewhere with no professional sports teams is people aren't able to really see market value in a sports product.

    But one of the genuine things that has relegated Iowa State to the status it has as an athletic department is the unwillingness of fans to pay for the product. I'm sorry, times are different. Coaches are the faces of your AD. No-one has brought more to this university over the past ten years than Fred Hoiberg. The dollar amount he has generated cannot be under stated.

    I understand your reference to the way people think around here as well. But many of these same folks don't bat an eye at writing big checks to Iowa for football tickets. As long as Fred keeps the program moving forward and establishes a level of performance that continues to excite the fans, both die-hard and casual, the market for those tickets will be there. No more $99 tickets, the AD can generate more revenue for those same seats.

    I'm fairly certain the same folks preaching patience in giving Fred elite money will be amongst the first to complain if he leaves because he's not making market value (see Cael).



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by SammyWild View Post
    I understand this, I really do. Part of the downside to living somewhere with no professional sports teams is people aren't able to really see market value in a sports product.

    But one of the genuine things that has relegated Iowa State to the status it has as an athletic department is the unwillingness of fans to pay for the product. I'm sorry, times are different. Coaches are the faces of your AD. No-one has brought more to this university over the past ten years than Fred Hoiberg. The dollar amount he has generated cannot be under stated.

    I understand your reference to the way people think around here as well. But many of these same folks don't bat an eye at writing big checks to Iowa for football tickets. As long as Fred keeps the program moving forward and establishes a level of performance that continues to excite the fans, both die-hard and casual, the market for those tickets will be there. No more $99 tickets, the AD can generate more revenue for those same seats.

    I'm fairly certain the same folks preaching patience in giving Fred elite money will be amongst the first to complain if he leaves because he's not making market value (see Cael).
    Brad Stevens took Butler to back to back National Title games. As great as Fred has been for us, Fred has not had that type of success....yet. I am not saying that we should not continue to reward Fred for a job well done. I am just saying that at this time it is a bit outrageous to say that we should be paying upwards of over $3 million per year at this time. It is a bit premature. In order to make the $3 million plus club you need to start making Final Fours and playing in National Championship games.



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    Tell me. What is market value for a 4th year coach at a Big 12 school? Tell us.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanri...all-coaches-2/
    Whatever his suitors decided, which for Fred, could be more than a 10-year Big 12 coach with more data (and fortune in the tournament). This is not buying indistinguishable, standardized products here.



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    Brad Stevens took Butler to back to back National Title games. As great as Fred has been for us, Fred has not had that type of success....yet. I am not saying that we should not continue to reward Fred for a job well done. I am just saying that at this time it is a bit outrageous to say that we should be paying upwards of over $3 million per year at this time. It is a bit premature. In order to make the $3 million plus club you need to start making Final Fours and playing in National Championship games.
    And Stevens had little to no NBA background, whereas Hoiberg does.

    Stevens did not get hired by the Celtics, and ultimately paid that much as a reward for reaching 2 National Title games. Would the Celtics have paid more if that buzzer beater would have dropped and they won? Not really. Although it changes YOUR argument, the NBA is not offering Stevens and Fred because of what happens based on one shot or call (see ISU-OSU too). Such happenstance and luck matters to a simpleton list of accomplishments and a CF poster, but it is not going to change how the NBA views you, or even smart ADs.

    The bottom-line is you think ISU determines Fred's market value based on what Fred has accomplished for ISU on the court in a few games over the past 4 years. That just is not true, for a myriad of reasons. If ISU disagrees and thinks Fred's market value is too high, or even if they think they need more data to decide, it should know that the alternatives are likely to be much more costly. More information is almost always expensive, especially when the difference is likely around only 500k. If our leaders cannot generate an additional 500k from an icon like Fred who has the program on a nearly unprecedented run in his 1st four years of coaching, that is a bigger problem.



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    Whatever his suitors decided, which for Fred, could be more than a 10-year Big 12 coach with more data (and fortune in the tournament). This is not buying indistinguishable, standardized products here.
    We just did this contract less than 2 years ago. We can talk more money. But then I would want a much bigger buyout if he goes to the NBA in exchange. Right now the buyout is peanuts.



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