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  1. #91
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    Depends. Highly successful college coaches get 2-3 million. From what I remember, there are at least 9 NBA coaches in that range, almost all with short deals. Most of the ones past that are proven NBA guys.
    We would be willing to pay as much as we could for Fred- say $2.5-$3 million. Given the above, how high would the NBA go before moving on to an established guy?
    And our contract we offer is twice as long.



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    As I said earlier, Fred needs to be paid fair market value as a highly successful college head coach. That certainly won't approach NBA money, but just because he loves ISU doesn't mean he should be paid less than what the market will bear. If we take care of him in that manner, I don't think he leaves for a good long time.
    No one is arguing that Fred should be paid well. I guess it comes down to what satisfies Fred in terms of compensation at a Big 12 school that has the smallest Athletic Department budget. And which made a whopping $121,000 profit in 2012. Like it or not, we either need to jack up prices for basketball tickets by a bunch with no more of these $99 season tickets if we are to pay what some are suggesting we should pay Fred.



  3. #93
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    I am sure Jamie will sit down and talk to Fred about his wants - what can we do help you continue to build ISU? If Fred wants more money, I am sure Jamie will make that happen. If it is money for assistants, I am equally sure Jamie will make that happen.

    At this point, the two worst things for Jamie are that (1) Fred leaves and (2) it doesn't appear that Jamie did all he could to keep him. Fred is bargaining from a position of power. While some are debating whether his accomplishments thus far warrant it, his popularity with the fanbase could not get much higher.

    Don't underestimate us. There's a whole new generation falling in love with Fred right now, and he's doing things here that no one else ever has. Piece by piece, we're finding out that ISU basketball revolves around Fred Hoiberg, and really has for a long, long time.


    Since we are an elite team now, let's go get that One Cyclone Moment.
    Make this one for the ages!




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  4. #94
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneErik View Post
    Don't underestimate us. There's a whole new generation falling in love with Fred right now, and he's doing things here that no one else ever has. Piece by piece, we're finding out that ISU basketball revolves around Fred Hoiberg, and really has for a long, long time.
    Agree. I also think that Fred is very appreciative of the opportunity he was given to be the Head Coach at a Big 12 school that had absolutely Zero head coaching experience. Pollard took a helluva gamble in giving Fred the HC job. An opportunity that any other school would not have given him. Fred is in the position he is in today because of ISU and Pollard. And IMO that will be a factor in whatever Fred wishes for his future.



  5. #95
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    This again?

    You do not pay a coach based on what someone else does at another school, you pay them based on their value to your program and the what the next best coach would cost YOU. You also do not pay them based on what they have done, but what you think they will do. This is why coaches like Howland can get fired after making 3 Final Fours in the past 8 years. Of course, there is usually a strong correlation from both, but in a case like Fred and ISU, there is a huge deviation. Fred's value to the University is beyond the W-L, and his market value is extremely high due to his main suitors being the NBA.


    But if you want to compare it Fred to Drew. Fred has one less NCAA trip while being at ISU 7 less years than Drew at Baylor. Even beginning Drew's clock with his first NCAA tournament, Fred has reached the tournament 3 out of 4, while Drew is 4 out of 7. Drew's average Big 12 wins per year is also less than Fred's. Drew has not even had back-to-back NCAA invites, compared to Fred having three in a row. Drew has only finished ahead of Fred once in 4 years, and Fred is 6-2 against Drew. Finally, Fred has 1 Big 12 title, Drew 0.

    You are placing way too much weight on a tournament largely based on luck. Baylor has two Elite Eight runs without having to face one single digit seed. Guess who they lost two in 2011-12? Yep, the same team ISU lost to in the second round. 2012-13 had Babb's injury and a bad call.

    Your comment on Rhoads is idiotic. Should I assume you probably had trouble getting pass the third grade due to such a weak rebuttal?
    You're a friendly little guy, aren't you?

    So I'm slow and had trouble getting past the 3rd grade because I don't share your opinion that we should open the bank vault for Fred after one sweet 16 run? I bet you are a joy to deal with in real life.

    And I'm placing too much weight on the NCAA tournament? Give me a break...that's what EVERYONE is ultimately judged on. Not "average conference wins" or who finished ahead of who in the conference standings.



  6. #96
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard




  7. #97
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    No one is arguing that Fred should be paid well. I guess it comes down to what satisfies Fred in terms of compensation at a Big 12 school that has the smallest Athletic Department budget. And which made a whopping $121,000 profit in 2012. Like it or not, we either need to jack up prices for basketball tickets by a bunch with no more of these $99 season tickets if we are to pay what some are suggesting we should pay Fred.
    And Duke basketball reportedly lost $2 million dollars in 2008-09 while East Tennessee St made $300K that year. I think Coach K's salary was worth it to them.

    Is the enjoyment Fred has brought to ISU athletics (and to the ISU community overall) the past 4 years not worth an extra $5 dollars a ticket? I suppose for some, the extra utility is not worth the $0.28 per day, but some would pay twice that increase. If not, ISU is not interested in major college athletics.


    Last edited by swarthmoreCY; 03-24-2014 at 04:31 PM.

  8. #98
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by cycloneworld View Post
    You're a friendly little guy, aren't you?

    So I'm slow and had trouble getting past the 3rd grade because I don't share your opinion that we should open the bank vault for Fred after one sweet 16 run? I bet you are a joy to deal with in real life.

    And I'm placing too much weight on the NCAA tournament? Give me a break...that's what EVERYONE is ultimately judged on. Not "average conference wins" or who finished ahead of who in the conference standings.
    No, it's because you used a fallacy even a 3rd grader would avoid and you lack a basic understanding of economics. Your risk reward ratio is completely unacceptable. The opinion on Hoiberg has nothing to do with Rhoads, nor are the situations equitable.

    Yes, too much weight, if you think Drew has done a better job than Hoiberg.



  9. #99
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    Even a huge contract isn't going to deter the NBA. If they want him and he wants to go, it will happen. Izzo, Donovan, Coach K make a lot and would get snapped up almost immediately.

    The point of Pollard doing it is to make sure Fred knows he is valued. And as we all learned in pre-school, actions speak louder than words. Pollard just needs to ask him what he needs to continue to complete with the blue-bloods. If Fred wants another million a year, figure it out.

    Pollard isn't going to keep him here if he wants to go. But he sure as hell can make him want to go. So he needs to look like he is doing everything he can to keep Fred happy.
    Probably the best statements in the thread. Fred was an academic all-American that majored in finance. It's pretty safe to say he's smart with money and understands the value of a contract well enough to make an educated decision for his family.

    I think we need to avoid any more "Bubu incidents" first and foremost. Fred knows what the NBA life is like more than anyone on this board. I can't speculate on what's best for him, but I sure as hell don't want to see any incidents that cause his decision to be swayed away from ISU.



  10. #100
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    No, it's because you used a fallacy even a 3rd grader would avoid and you lack a basic understanding of economics. Your risk reward ratio is completely unacceptable. The opinion on Hoiberg has nothing to do with Rhoads, nor are the situations equitable.

    Yes, too much weight, if you think Drew has done a better job than Hoiberg.
    I do think Drew has done a better rebuilding job than Hoiberg, that must should be fairly obvious. It took longer but it was a 100x harder rebuild. Since you'd rather resort to name calling, I'll flat out ask the question: What do you think we should pay him?? Because I've already laid out my proposal.



  11. #101
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    Agree. I also think that Fred is very appreciative of the opportunity he was given to be the Head Coach at a Big 12 school that had absolutely Zero head coaching experience. Pollard took a helluva gamble in giving Fred the HC job. An opportunity that any other school would not have given him. Fred is in the position he is in today because of ISU and Pollard. And IMO that will be a factor in whatever Fred wishes for his future.
    JP owes a lot more to Fred than Fred owes to JP. We couldn't get any good coaching candidates when LE was canned, and the program was in a heck of a lot better shape than when Creighton saved us from GMac. Just what good coach was going to come to ISU with the huge mess the program was in when GMac left? Nobody, that's who. Fred came home and absolutely saved ISU basketball and probably JP's job along with it. Apparently Fred was interested in the job when JP hired GMac. Had JP skipped over Fred again and we ended up with another one of his hires like GMac or Chizik, he would be long gone by now.



  12. #102
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by alkaline33 View Post
    Does CFH's contract include bonuses/perks for Big 12/NCAA tourney appearances/wins? I know this is common for football but haven't heard anything about a basketball equivalent.
    The Rag did an entire story on this recently - he gets 25k for winning the B12 tourney and 25k for getting into the NCAA tourney. Then I believe it is an additional 25k for each NCAA tourney win and 100k for a NC.
    Interestingly enough the Rag did not have anything to say about Frantic and how much he could get by getting into a game that gave them a chance to be considered the 64th best team in the country.











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  13. #103
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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Lots of great ideas and opinions on this. Hopefully something gets done and Fred can coach my boy someday (he is 4).



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Give him another big raise. If we had to go out and hire the equivalent of Hoiberg, it would probably cost us $5 million a year. And it still wouldn't be Hoiberg. Think about the candidates we would attract if he left....first it would take some with some balls to be the guy to replace Hoiberg, second, there is no way we could afford that person. Fred is a ******* bargain at the $1.7 million (or whatever he makes this year). And he would be a bargain at $3 million.

    Jamie's conversations with Fred should entirely consist of Jamie asking Fred, "What can I do to make you happy? I will do anything."



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    Re: Open up the check book, Mr. Pollard

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    And Duke basketball reportedly lost $2 million dollars in 2008-09 while East Tennessee St made $300K that year. I think Coach K's salary was worth it to them.

    Is the enjoyment Fred has brought to ISU athletics (and to the ISU community overall) the past 4 years not worth an extra $5 dollars a ticket? I suppose for some, the extra utility is not worth the $0.28 per day, but some would pay twice that increase. If not, ISU is not interested in major college athletics.
    It is your type of mindset that ended up with Ferentz becoming the $4 million man. How did that turn out?



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