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  1. #46
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    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by NEICyFan View Post
    I expect good to great recruiting/development out of KJ. Just like I did out of Douglas, Cael and Gibbons. I also expect it out of our other coaches, but moreso in wrestling where we have inherent advantages that we don't have in hoops and football.

    So yeah...look at any of our teams that finished in the top 5 or 6 at the NCAAs over the past 30-40 years for your answer. I expect that kind of performance more years than not. I don't think that's too much to expect from the ISU wrestling program.
    Again specifics my man - Believe me I am a huge Cyclone Wrestling fan and have been going to the meets for 30 years.

    I can tell you every argument you've made about development i can say I was more disappointed with Cael and Douglass than I am with Jackson. Cael and Bobby got top recuriting classes year in and year out we consistently had under performance out of those kids.

    While we are at it again -you seem to struggle with specifics for ISU. Don't just point out we don't finish as well as you'd like - no S**t we've covered that. Name some great development in our past that Jackson should aspire to be like, ya know something that I can't refute by saying M Mereno or K Gadson.

    I'll agree I wish Jackson could recruit like Cael and Douglass did - With Jackson actually coaching the kids that those guys brought in I think we'd have some some titles during their 17 year run with out one that we like to remember as our "great years of always competing for national championships"



  2. #47
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    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by cloneswillwin View Post
    -Disagree with both Finch and Cozart - Neither ended up being D1 talent, hence why they are not at a D1 program this year - don't you think that if they could have been an AA at D1 level with another coach another coach would of picked them up on their team?
    -Bauer by the way was the #112 recruit in the country - that is not tremendous accolades
    -Weatherman had 1 year with Jackson before he was injured - so not sure what your talking about here

    As you admit Jackson has developed talent, as to not enough that is open for debate. Like i put in my longer post for us to be where you think we should be Jackson would of had no margin for error - every recruit had to pan out and every low recruit had to magically develop into an AA - Can you show another program or coach that has done this?

    Yeah, next year is a big one guessing we'll move from being just outside the top 10 to just inside the top 10 and you'll still be trolling ISU wrestling boards.
    How can you say in one breath that at ISU Finch was in the top 20 in D1 and in the next breath say he's not D1? How can you say he doesn't have D1 talent when he's proven it by both qualifying for the NCAA tournament and winning a match? There are kids in D2, D3, JC and NAIA with D1 talent. I don't think you understand the meaning of the term. Finch went 18-10 as a frosh and got a pin at the NCAA tournament. How is that "not D1"? He didn't even qualify the next year. That's going backwards developmentally. He's good enough to wrestle D1. He proved it.

    Your comment: "As you admit Jackson has developed talent, as to not enough that is open for debate. Like i put in my longer post for us to be where you think we should be Jackson would of had no margin for error - every recruit had to pan out and every low recruit had to magically develop into an AA - Can you show another program or coach that has done this?"

    That is patently false. Not everyone has to pan out. Not everyone will pan out nor is it expected. It would have only taken a couple of more AAs to move well into the top 10 in the country each of the past two seasons.



  3. #48
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    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by NEICyFan View Post
    How can you say in one breath that at ISU Finch was in the top 20 in D1 and in the next breath say he's not D1? How can you say he doesn't have D1 talent when he's proven it by both qualifying for the NCAA tournament and winning a match? There are kids in D2, D3, JC and NAIA with D1 talent. I don't think you understand the meaning of the term. Finch went 18-10 as a frosh and got a pin at the NCAA tournament. How is that "not D1"? He didn't even qualify the next year. That's going backwards developmentally. He's good enough to wrestle D1. He proved it.

    Your comment: "As you admit Jackson has developed talent, as to not enough that is open for debate. Like i put in my longer post for us to be where you think we should be Jackson would of had no margin for error - every recruit had to pan out and every low recruit had to magically develop into an AA - Can you show another program or coach that has done this?"

    That is patently false. Not everyone has to pan out. Not everyone will pan out nor is it expected. It would have only taken a couple of more AAs to move well into the top 10 in the country each of the past two seasons.
    Good point Finch was D1 talent, just not the "top" talent, would of never AA at ISU or any other program. How do I know this - he had his chances and again if he could be he would be, many schools out there that would have taken him at the D1 level if they thought they could get an AA candidate but he ended up at NAIA Grandview. Aren't you glad the Coach Jackson replaced a non-top talent wrestler with one that is in Hall?

    Good to point out that with just 2 more AA the last couple years ISU would be top 10, nobody knew that before you posted it. Some of our recruits as with all schools didn't pan out, some wrestlers as with all schools didn't develop.

    Facts are Jackson hasn't been perfect - to be significantly better than we are right now would have taken damn near perfection. Won't go over every detail because I think I've done that in previous posts, Jackson has done pretty good with the hole that Cael left, but again I'll state it again, excuse time is over. I expect that ISU wrestling will get back to our former self over the next couple years or Jackson has got to go.



  4. #49
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    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by NEICyFan View Post
    How can you say in one breath that at ISU Finch was in the top 20 in D1 and in the next breath say he's not D1? How can you say he doesn't have D1 talent when he's proven it by both qualifying for the NCAA tournament and winning a match? There are kids in D2, D3, JC and NAIA with D1 talent. I don't think you understand the meaning of the term. Finch went 18-10 as a frosh and got a pin at the NCAA tournament. How is that "not D1"? He didn't even qualify the next year. That's going backwards developmentally. He's good enough to wrestle D1. He proved it.

    Your comment: "As you admit Jackson has developed talent, as to not enough that is open for debate. Like i put in my longer post for us to be where you think we should be Jackson would of had no margin for error - every recruit had to pan out and every low recruit had to magically develop into an AA - Can you show another program or coach that has done this?"

    That is patently false. Not everyone has to pan out. Not everyone will pan out nor is it expected. It would have only taken a couple of more AAs to move well into the top 10 in the country each of the past two seasons.



    Finch didn't perform (or develop) at ISU and had to leave ISU not because of his talent but because of other reasons that have nothing to do with coaching. There are some things that are out of a coach's (ours or any other coach's) hands. I'm happy Finch (and Thompson and Cozart) found a home where he (they) can and did succeed athletically and (hopefully) academically. However, to use Finch in this argument is off point.



  5. #50
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    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by ralst024 View Post
    Finch didn't perform (or develop) at ISU and had to leave ISU not because of his talent but because of other reasons that have nothing to do with coaching. There are some things that are out of a coach's (ours or any other coach's) hands. I'm happy Finch (and Thompson and Cozart) found a home where he (they) can and did succeed athletically and (hopefully) academically. However, to use Finch in this argument is off point.

    I don't see how it is off point to say that a kid with his accolades was recruited by this staff and didn't come through in the end. Significant resources were poured into the kid (time and $) and it didn't work out.

    Would like to hear more opinions on where we need to be next year if anyone cares to offer them. I respect those who said top 12 is good enough even if I disagree with them.



  6. #51
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    cloneswillwin's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by NEICyFan View Post
    I don't see how it is off point to say that a kid with his accolades was recruited by this staff and didn't come through in the end. Significant resources were poured into the kid (time and $) and it didn't work out.

    Would like to hear more opinions on where we need to be next year if anyone cares to offer them. I respect those who said top 12 is good enough even if I disagree with them.
    Dude - just went through you posting history - You either have to be a Panther Hawk or the most miserable Cyclone fan ever. You defend the Panter Hawks every chance you get - arguing with Cyclone fans seems to be your past time. I have noticed your negative posts running down ISU wrestling and Football, over and over and over. If Judoka is a rainbows and sunshine fan your a **** and vinegar fan, if you are a Cyclone fan I think you'd be much happier being a Panther or Hawk fan. I for one would say ISU doesn't need your type of fan "support", and if there is any one on here doubting what I'm say please read this guys posting history, 80% reminding us how ISU is not good in wrestling or football, 15% defending Panther Hawks against Cyclone fan comments, 5% saying something good about ISU

    Am I doing this right?

    Go back and find the Cyclone Fan Poster that said top 12 is good enough, know you struggle with facts unless it's Panther Hawk facts.



  7. #52
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    Re: Looking to next year

    I don't think finishing 12th is satisfactory it actually pisses me off..We should be beating up on teams like UNI with no problem. While most times I argue against you as I'm on the "Sunshine and rainbows" side, I would agree that we as a team are under-performing from a traditional standpoint..But your main point basically is saying that you're calling for KJ's job. When I joined the board a couple years ago, there were several of us doing the same thing. Given the situation that Cael left us in, KJ did what he could with what he had and that includes the coaching staff. KJ's regime started out nice with guys like Varner, Zabriskie, Long and Reader. Though they were not his recruits he did however play a part in coaching them up for the remainder of their careers..Gadson, Moreno and Hall are his recruits and they have done well if not overachieved at the national tournament..You talk about guys not panning out or not meeting expectations and that is normal EVERYWHERE. Finch and Cozart were both highly touted and didn't work out, but there are other guys that are starting to figure it out such as the Moreno brothers, Tanner and Lelund Weatherspoon. In other situations guys that were plagued by injuries couldn't contribute as we would have liked such as Beard, Spangler, Sorenson and Trent Weatherman..Injuries are a part of the game so let's say those guys didn't get hurt? We wouldn't have likely finished in the top ten, but probably better than in the 20's or whatever..So that brings us to 2014 where we finish 12th at nationals. Are ANY of us pleased with the placing? Probably not, but we are getting better. Most of us have learned that patience is a virtue and that making this program into a national contender will likely take time. If KJ was on the chopping block that's fine, but who would come to ISU and make us a perennial top 5 team right away?



  8. #53
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    Re: Looking to next year

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ts20F13hfU

    Good video from Michael Moreno



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