Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 53
  1. #31
    Starter
    Points: 11,627, Level: 32
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 323
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    737
    Points
    11,627
    Level
    32
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 12
    Given: 8

    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by cloneswillwin View Post
    The more i keep thinking of that statement - please take the time to explain what has been lacking in his performance? Dont' just say we should be better and finish higher actually give us some of your great knowledge of college wrestling on how Jackson could have realistically done so much better. What specific expectations of his performance are you referring to? Have some time on my hands until the BB game starts and would love to have a great intellectual debate on ISU wrestling with a fellow Cyclone wrestling supporter / Hawk Panther troll.
    Please give me a break with the anti-KJ stuff. I've said since he signed the extension that I'm on board and looking for improvement. He's our guy for next year but doesn't have a contract beyond next season. It is only prudent at this point in time to discuss what needs to be done for him to receive another extension.

    As for your question above, that's a relatively easy question to answer. ISU is one of the most storied and most well supported wrestling programs in the country. ISU is one of only a hand full of programs with a realistic shot of contending for a national title on a regular basis. The past 4 years we have finished: 20th, 35th, 11th and 12th. In the fifth year of this program we couldn't get into the top 10 and in the fifth year of this program we had 5(!) starters finish with sub-.500 records. Half the team had a losing record. Think about just how bad that is for just a second. You're telling me that in five years it is unrealistic to think we could find a wrestler at most every weight class who could produce a winning record?

    This isn't football where it takes years to rebuild. Wrestling programs can/should be rebuilt rather quickly. Simply put, recruiting, retention and development do not approach elite levels.

    If having higher expectations than what we are getting for program than what we're getting makes me a bad fan, so be it. We're Iowa State, for crying out loud. When I read comments from this thread and others that we should be content with the results we are getting it makes me think too many people have forgotten this. These kind of comments make me want to pull my hair out.



  2. #32
    Starter
    Points: 11,627, Level: 32
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 323
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    737
    Points
    11,627
    Level
    32
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 12
    Given: 8

    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by CyBobby View Post
    I sure didn't want KJ as the wrestling coach, my thinking was and still is that he cannot "Recruit" well enough to ever threaten Iowa in a Dual, not to mention beating Cael and Penn State.

    After another dismal finish next year it will be time for a change.
    This is a guy that gets it. That last sentence was well said. The number of fans who don't think 12th is a bad season has me concerned.

    Iowa fans are pulling their hair out after finishing 4th. I'm not sure we need to be at that level but the lack of concern over our finishes has me frustrated.



  3. #33
    Walk On
    Points: 6,102, Level: 23
    Level completed: 11%, Points required for next Level: 448
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    cloneswillwin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ames via York NE :-(
    Posts
    145
    Points
    6,102
    Level
    23
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 21
    Given: 4

    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by NEICyFan View Post
    Please give me a break with the anti-KJ stuff. I've said since he signed the extension that I'm on board and looking for improvement. He's our guy for next year but doesn't have a contract beyond next season. It is only prudent at this point in time to discuss what needs to be done for him to receive another extension.

    As for your question above, that's a relatively easy question to answer. ISU is one of the most storied and most well supported wrestling programs in the country. ISU is one of only a hand full of programs with a realistic shot of contending for a national title on a regular basis. The past 4 years we have finished: 20th, 35th, 11th and 12th. In the fifth year of this program we couldn't get into the top 10 and in the fifth year of this program we had 5(!) starters finish with sub-.500 records. Half the team had a losing record. Think about just how bad that is for just a second. You're telling me that in five years it is unrealistic to think we could find a wrestler at most every weight class who could produce a winning record?

    This isn't football where it takes years to rebuild. Wrestling programs can/should be rebuilt rather quickly. Simply put, recruiting, retention and development do not approach elite levels.

    If having higher expectations than what we are getting for program than what we're getting makes me a bad fan, so be it. We're Iowa State, for crying out loud. When I read comments from this thread and others that we should be content with the results we are getting it makes me think too many people have forgotten this. These kind of comments make me want to pull my hair out.

    -ISU is one of the most storied and most well supported wrestling programs in the country. ISU is one of only a hand full of programs with a realistic shot of contending for a national title on a regular basis.
    Agree on the first statement Nichols and Gibbons created that environment, on the second one I would have to disagree - we haven't been that since Nichols and Gibbons left - Douglass couldn't do it here and Cael couldn't do it here.

    This isn't football where it takes years to rebuild. Wrestling programs can/should be rebuilt rather quickly.
    Disagree when you consider the size of the the whole Cael left us in - like the facts that i posted earlier to expect anything different is just asinine - nice to know your expectation was for Jackson to work miracles.
    Simply put, recruiting, retention and development do not approach elite levels.
    Agree on early recruiting except for his 2nd class, can you specific on retention and how it relates to Jacksons performance? Can you be specific on development? Which wrestlers have not developed?



  4. #34
    Starter
    Points: 11,627, Level: 32
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 323
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    737
    Points
    11,627
    Level
    32
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 12
    Given: 8

    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by cloneswillwin View Post

    -ISU is one of the most storied and most well supported wrestling programs in the country. ISU is one of only a hand full of programs with a realistic shot of contending for a national title on a regular basis.
    Agree on the first statement Nichols and Gibbons created that environment, on the second one I would have to disagree - we haven't been that since Nichols and Gibbons left - Douglass couldn't do it here and Cael couldn't do it here.

    This isn't football where it takes years to rebuild. Wrestling programs can/should be rebuilt rather quickly.
    Disagree when you consider the size of the the whole Cael left us in - like the facts that i posted earlier to expect anything different is just asinine - nice to know your expectation was for Jackson to work miracles.
    Simply put, recruiting, retention and development do not approach elite levels.
    Agree on early recruiting except for his 2nd class, can you specific on retention and how it relates to Jacksons performance? Can you be specific on development? Which wrestlers have not developed?
    Sorry in advance that I can't figure out the multi-quote.

    Contending. Disagree but it is a matter of perspective: Douglas had us well into the top 10 consistently. Top 6 nine times. Top 4 five times. Top 2 three times. That's contending on a somewhat regular basis. Cael had us in contention every year.

    Rebuilding. The midwest is a fertile recruiting area and we recruit nationally. Picking up 2-3 somewhat high level wrestlers each year isn't asking for a miracle. Neither is the expectation that over 5 years we have at least a solid wrestler at most every weight.

    Retention/Development: In 5 years he has recruited/developed just three wrestlers to AA status. We are not littering the podium at the NCAA tournament with wrestlers. It's either a recruiting problem, a development problem, or both. I don't see the need for going into deep specifics here but certainly guys like Beard, Goettl, Bauer, Finch, Trent Weatherman, and Cozart all come to mind when talking about retention and development. I might even throw a guy like Cole Shafer in there, who qualified for the NCAAs as a frosh then more or less disappeared.

    He's got a year left. This year is simply huge for his future and for the program. If we can get several guys to make a big leap we will be in good shape.



  5. #35
    Pro
    Points: 34,906, Level: 57
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 544
    Overall activity: 16.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,871
    Points
    34,906
    Level
    57
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 84
    Given: 95

    Re: Looking to next year

    He actually has 4, Gibson, Moreno, Gadson, and Hall are all KJ recruits



  6. #36
    Pro
    Points: 34,906, Level: 57
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 544
    Overall activity: 16.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,871
    Points
    34,906
    Level
    57
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 84
    Given: 95

    Re: Looking to next year

    I think as far as recruits, it is learning who to recruit. Knowing the character of the kids you are recruiting. This develops over time.



  7. #37
    Starter
    Points: 11,627, Level: 32
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 323
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    737
    Points
    11,627
    Level
    32
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 12
    Given: 8

    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by buf87 View Post
    He actually has 4, Gibson, Moreno, Gadson, and Hall are all KJ recruits
    Oh yes--good call. Many thanks for the correction.



  8. #38
    Starter
    Points: 17,064, Level: 39
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 186
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran10000 Experience Points
    heyguy85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    893
    Points
    17,064
    Level
    39
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 16
    Given: 35

    Re: Looking to next year

    We need to be a solid top 10, 5-8 next year for him to get an extension. The fan base is polarized on KJ right now and he needs to have a break through season. I hope it happens.



  9. #39
    Pro
    Points: 34,906, Level: 57
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 544
    Overall activity: 16.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,871
    Points
    34,906
    Level
    57
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 84
    Given: 95

    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by NEICyFan View Post
    Oh yes--good call. Many thanks for the correction.
    We are trying to deal with facts



  10. #40
    Walk On
    Points: 6,102, Level: 23
    Level completed: 11%, Points required for next Level: 448
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    cloneswillwin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ames via York NE :-(
    Posts
    145
    Points
    6,102
    Level
    23
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 21
    Given: 4

    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by NEICyFan View Post
    Sorry in advance that I can't figure out the multi-quote.

    Contending. Disagree but it is a matter of perspective: Douglas had us well into the top 10 consistently. Top 6 nine times. Top 4 five times. Top 2 three times. That's contending on a somewhat regular basis. Cael had us in contention every year.

    Rebuilding. The midwest is a fertile recruiting area and we recruit nationally. Picking up 2-3 somewhat high level wrestlers each year isn't asking for a miracle. Neither is the expectation that over 5 years we have at least a solid wrestler at most every weight.

    Retention/Development: In 5 years he has recruited/developed just three wrestlers to AA status. We are not littering the podium at the NCAA tournament with wrestlers. It's either a recruiting problem, a development problem, or both. I don't see the need for going into deep specifics here but certainly guys like Beard, Goettl, Bauer, Finch, Trent Weatherman, and Cozart all come to mind when talking about retention and development. I might even throw a guy like Cole Shafer in there, who qualified for the NCAAs as a frosh then more or less disappeared.

    He's got a year left. This year is simply huge for his future and for the program. If we can get several guys to make a big leap we will be in good shape.
    Again - agree on the recruiting - to get back to being a consistent top 10 program (all we've been consistent at since nichols/ gibbons era) we need to do a better job here - think Buf or Judoka stated that this has been a work in progress for Jackson to figure out
    Beard - Injured this year, cant say we know what his development was
    Goettl - Agree disappointment
    Bauer - How could you say a RFR hasn't developed? Again isn't there injury here as well, again your expectation is every wrestler is an AA as RFR?
    Finch - Not d1 talent - otherwise he'd be at a d1 school right now NAIA champ would prob put him at ~ where he was at ISU ranked near 20th
    Trent Weatherman - injured out for career
    Cozart - see Finch

    Has M. Moreno developed? Has Gadson? Not sure if you watched ISU wrestling during the year, i know you spend significant time trolling our boards in between going to UNI / Iowa matches did you see Quean develop?

    While we are at it - give me some examples of great development of ISU wrestlers in the past something we can specifically use as an example of what your expecting Jackson to do.



  11. #41
    Starter
    Points: 11,627, Level: 32
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 323
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    737
    Points
    11,627
    Level
    32
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 12
    Given: 8

    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by cloneswillwin View Post
    Again - agree on the recruiting - to get back to being a consistent top 10 program (all we've been consistent at since nichols/ gibbons era) we need to do a better job here - think Buf or Judoka stated that this has been a work in progress for Jackson to figure out
    Beard - Injured this year, cant say we know what his development was
    Goettl - Agree disappointment
    Bauer - How could you say a RFR hasn't developed? Again isn't there injury here as well, again your expectation is every wrestler is an AA as RFR?
    Finch - Not d1 talent - otherwise he'd be at a d1 school right now NAIA champ would prob put him at ~ where he was at ISU ranked near 20th
    Trent Weatherman - injured out for career
    Cozart - see Finch

    Has M. Moreno developed? Has Gadson? Not sure if you watched ISU wrestling during the year, i know you spend significant time trolling our boards in between going to UNI / Iowa matches did you see Quean develop?

    While we are at it - give me some examples of great development of ISU wrestlers in the past something we can specifically use as an example of what your expecting Jackson to do.

    Beard never came around the way it was expected, even if you look at just to his junior year.
    The jury is still out on Bauer but he came in with tremendous accolades and was not good this year.
    Finch was a big time recruit out of HS. Top ranked by several services and double champion at Fargo. He has the skills to compete at D1 and has shown it over the years. To say he's "not a d1 talent" is head scratching. He was a huge coup recruiting wise for KJ.
    Weatherman wasn't developing as planned before his issues set in.
    Cozart is either a recruiting miss or a development miss, not unlike Finch.

    Why are you asking me about the guys who have clearly developed? That's a classic straw man argument. It has never been claimed that no one has developed under KJ. Especially not by me. The frustration has been that there aren't enough guys and our performance speaks to this.

    FWIW, I posted many times this season that I've enjoyed seeing Smith come around. He has a long way to go but I believe I've even used the term "feather in the cap" of the coaching staff with what they've done with him, over the course of this season.



  12. #42
    Starter
    Points: 11,627, Level: 32
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 323
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    737
    Points
    11,627
    Level
    32
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 12
    Given: 8

    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by cloneswillwin View Post
    While we are at it - give me some examples of great development of ISU wrestlers in the past something we can specifically use as an example of what your expecting Jackson to do.
    I expect good to great recruiting/development out of KJ. Just like I did out of Douglas, Cael and Gibbons. I also expect it out of our other coaches, but moreso in wrestling where we have inherent advantages that we don't have in hoops and football.

    So yeah...look at any of our teams that finished in the top 5 or 6 at the NCAAs over the past 30-40 years for your answer. I expect that kind of performance more years than not. I don't think that's too much to expect from the ISU wrestling program.



  13. #43
    Walk On
    Points: 6,102, Level: 23
    Level completed: 11%, Points required for next Level: 448
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    cloneswillwin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ames via York NE :-(
    Posts
    145
    Points
    6,102
    Level
    23
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 21
    Given: 4

    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by NEICyFan View Post
    Beard never came around the way it was expected, even if you look at just to his junior year.
    The jury is still out on Bauer but he came in with tremendous accolades and was not good this year.
    Finch was a big time recruit out of HS. Top ranked by several services and double champion at Fargo. He has the skills to compete at D1 and has shown it over the years. To say he's "not a d1 talent" is head scratching. He was a huge coup recruiting wise for KJ.
    Weatherman wasn't developing as planned before his issues set in.
    Cozart is either a recruiting miss or a development miss, not unlike Finch.

    Why are you asking me about the guys who have clearly developed? That's a classic straw man argument. It has never been claimed that no one has developed under KJ. Especially not by me. The frustration has been that there aren't enough guys and our performance speaks to this.

    FWIW, I posted many times this season that I've enjoyed seeing Smith come around. He has a long way to go but I believe I've even used the term "feather in the cap" of the coaching staff with what they've done with him, over the course of this season.
    -Disagree with both Finch and Cozart - Neither ended up being D1 talent, hence why they are not at a D1 program this year - don't you think that if they could have been an AA at D1 level with another coach another coach would of picked them up on their team?
    -Bauer by the way was the #112 recruit in the country - that is not tremendous accolades
    -Weatherman had 1 year with Jackson before he was injured - so not sure what your talking about here

    As you admit Jackson has developed talent, as to not enough that is open for debate. Like i put in my longer post for us to be where you think we should be Jackson would of had no margin for error - every recruit had to pan out and every low recruit had to magically develop into an AA - Can you show another program or coach that has done this?

    Yeah, next year is a big one guessing we'll move from being just outside the top 10 to just inside the top 10 and you'll still be trolling ISU wrestling boards.



  14. #44
    Legend
    Points: 142,990, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 60.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteranOverdrive
    Judoka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Timbuktu
    Posts
    10,825
    Points
    142,990
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 551
    Given: 628

    Re: Looking to next year

    Man, you must be real mad about your Panthers and Hawks crapping the bed at NCAAs to spend your whole day on here trolling.

    Every Iowa State wrestler wrestled at or above their seed this weekend. While Iowa was expecting to have a shot to win it and ended up out of the conversation entirely. UNI completely faded away and ended up below ISU in the team score and well out of the top 10. And both Iowa and UNI were on peak years of their recruiting cycles, while ISU hasn't reached their peak yet.

    In the gameday thread you had like three posts, all negative. And then the day after we have a damn good tournament you start a thread like this. How pathetic are you?


    Last edited by Judoka; 03-24-2014 at 08:50 AM.

  15. #45
    Starter
    Points: 11,627, Level: 32
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 323
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    737
    Points
    11,627
    Level
    32
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 12
    Given: 8

    Re: Looking to next year

    Quote Originally Posted by Judoka View Post
    Man, you must be real mad about your Panthers and Hawks crapping the bed at NCAAs to spend you're whole day on here trolling.

    Every Iowa State wrestler wrestled at or above their seed this weekend. While Iowa was expecting to have a shot to win it and ended up out of the conversation entirely. UNI completely faded away and ended up below ISU in the team score and well out of the top 10. And both Iowa and UNI were on peak years of their recruiting cycles, while ISU hasn't reached their peak yet.

    In the gameday thread you had like three posts, all negative. And then the day after we have a damn good tournament you start a thread like this. How pathetic are you?

    I'm just glad you're reading my posts again. It's about time. When you took your ball and went home after I proved you wrong about UNI being better supported than Iowa I was disappointed.

    I would LOVE to "crap the bed" like Iowa did. They almost doubled our points, return more points than we do, more point scorers than we do, more AAs than we do, and they have 3 studs waiting in the wings to take over for their seniors. They also didn't drop in the team standings from 2013.

    Hopefully someday we can be as disappointed with a performance like that as Iowa fans are with their performance. It will mean we are finally back where we belong.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • TV: FS1
  • FOOTBALL: Iowa State vs. West Virginia
  • November 29, 2014
  • 11:00 AM