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  1. #31
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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    Quote Originally Posted by ruxCYtable View Post
    Not in high school
    That explains it, thank you.



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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    Just tell ya that after watching the Girls games last week - there seems to be ALOT of questionable calls that go against Des Moines schools opponents. This is just one more case....In West vs SE Polk, nearly same amount of fouls in the game, however, SE Polk shot 13 more freethrows with several questionable calls of players on the floor - thus non-shooting fouls.

    Guess even the refs couldnt save Urbandale, they got rocked by Bettendorf....one way to take refs calls out of the game of chance, simply knock someone out....IMO thats the only way you can assure yourself that this will not happen....



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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    Quote Originally Posted by cmjh10 View Post
    Thats where I made my living senior year, so I think I know about what is a foul and what isnt
    you played in the post? If so, you went to a small school.


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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    Quote Originally Posted by Agclone91 View Post
    There was definitely a small push in the back when the ball was in the air, but nothing to warrant a foul call.
    That's a foul all game. 2 hands in the back, full extension of the arms. If no foul is called and the shot is missed, rebounded and put back, that would be an egregious no call.



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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    Quote Originally Posted by KMAC_ATTACK View Post
    Just tell ya that after watching the Girls games last week - there seems to be ALOT of questionable calls that go against Des Moines schools opponents. This is just one more case....In West vs SE Polk, nearly same amount of fouls in the game, however, SE Polk shot 13 more freethrows with several questionable calls of players on the floor - thus non-shooting fouls.Guess even the refs couldnt save Urbandale, they got rocked by Bettendorf....one way to take refs calls out of the game of chance, simply knock someone out....IMO thats the only way you can assure yourself that this will not happen....
    High school refs suck for the most part. Had instances where parents of the opposite team officiated games. And obviously the bias was off the charts bad. It shouldn't be that hard to get people who aren't parents to ref, it is what it is.


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  6. #36
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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    Quote Originally Posted by IHavNoCyCash View Post
    you played in the post? If so, you went to a small school.
    Coach wouldnt let me shoot a jump shot... And yes, I went to a very small school


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  7. #37
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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUCubswin View Post
    1. No doubt in my mind its a foul for sure

    2. I'm a firm believer that fouls shouldn't be called unless it's completely obvious the last 5 seconds of a game. In no way possible could that ball have hit the rim, bounced out, and the Senior player get the tip in in 0.5 seconds. No way at all.

    So, while I agree that it was a foul, I disagree that it should've been called. Let them play. Some refs don't have that concept.
    Regarding #2, you expect the official to know that there was half a second left and not 3 seconds left? Its hard enough to officiate a game straight up and no you think they need to start thinking about the game situation to determine if they should blow the whistle on top of it?

    This call is why this official was doing state tournament games. Bad officials would call the foul if the shot was missed. Good officials call it when the foul occurs.



  8. #38
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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    The refs were bad the whole night. At one pointCarlo Marble (devyns little brother) got punched while shooting and no call. Refs were waiting to see if the ball was going in before calling a foul. On that last play, I had no idea what the call was. I was watching the shooter and wasn't following the action under the bucket. Great win for VHS though!



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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    Should've been a no call, but two hand shoving the guy 3 feet in front of the ref is probably a bad idea



  10. #40
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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    State tournament refs in every sport are always biased towards Des Moines Schools, particularly Valley.

    Having said that the officiating in the next game was just as bad. High school refs may just be incompetent as a whole.



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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    Quote Originally Posted by ruxCYtable View Post
    Absolutely brutal. But this will continue to happen as long as officials getting to the state tournament is based on popularity rather than merit.

    Rather that rehash it all again, I'll copy and paste from an email I shared with friends:

    First, from that viewpoint it's a foul that shouldn't be called anyway. Second, if it was while the ball was in flight, the ball becomes dead immediately on an offensive foul and the basket can't be counted. Third, if it's after the ball goes through the hoop, it must be flagrant or intentional or it is to be ignored. Fourth, they had a chance to get together and hash this all out and had an easy out: The foul was with the horn and we're going to OT.

    One of the non-calling officials needed to man-up and say no, we're not doing this. They're ALL guilty.

    PS: IMO, you ONLY call that foul if that ball comes off the rim and he gets the rebound. Otherwise, NEVER.
    Its easy to see/hear from the replay that the foul occurred before the shot went in and before the horn sounded.

    So at that time, all the ref under the basket knows is that there is very little time in the game. He doesn't know if there is .5 seconds or 3 seconds or 5 seconds. What you are advocating is that when the refs sees that foul, he should pause 3-5 seconds before blowing the whistle and call the foul. That's what makes bad officials.



  12. #42
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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    Quote Originally Posted by IlikeTornados View Post
    State tournament refs in every sport are always biased towards Des Moines Schools, particularly Valley.
    While this may be true in football it is absolutely not true in basketball. High School refs HATE Horner. Valley played a game at Waukee this year when the fouls were like 30-10 against with the Waukee center shooting 28 free throws by himself. Horner got two Ts and got tossed.

    Valley got scheduled a "neutral site" game against Ankeny Centennial this year with a state berth on the line....at Ankeny High, the same school the Centennial players had attended and played at for 3 years.

    Last year against Roosevelt with a state tourney bid on the line Jok gets his arms pinned to his sides on the last shot of the game....no call.

    The ref that made the call last night was terrible from opening tip to final whistle both ways. About the only thing he did right on that last call was to be emphatic about it. No hesitation. Was it a foul? Yes. Do you see it called very often? No. Was there some grand conspiracy to "Save Valley"? Highly doubt it.



  13. #43
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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    That same dude had about 3 chances to be called for a foul in that short clip. All he did was shove people


    Exaggeration is a BILLION times worse than understating.

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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    Quote Originally Posted by clone52 View Post
    Its easy to see/hear from the replay that the foul occurred before the shot went in and before the horn sounded.

    So at that time, all the ref under the basket knows is that there is very little time in the game. He doesn't know if there is .5 seconds or 3 seconds or 5 seconds. What you are advocating is that when the refs sees that foul, he should pause 3-5 seconds before blowing the whistle and call the foul. That's what makes bad officials.
    I respect your opinion. As an official for 15 years who has worked over 500 varsity games, a significant portion of which have been at the 4A level, patient whistles make good officials. Patient whistles are taught and stressed at officiating camps. An official knowing the situation and being patient PREVENTS this situation from occurring. In no way am I advocating waiting 3-5 seconds, but a half second or even a second is acceptable and even desirable in a situation such as this.

    I'm not God's gift to officiating but I promise you if I'd been standing on that baseline last night I would have known the situation and that foul would not have been called.



  15. #45
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    Re: Horrific foul call in 4A Boys game

    I think it's interesting that some think that rules should be suspended in the last seconds of a game. If it's a penalty at any other time why shouldn't it be a penalty in huge last 5 seconds?



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