Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 46
  1. #1
    Bench Warmer
    Points: 8,421, Level: 27
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 329
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    5000 Experience Points3 months registered
    88clone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    West Des Moines
    Posts
    240
    Points
    8,421
    Level
    27
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 110
    Given: 53

    Multidimensional players = depth

    I know there has been talk about our depth in the national media as a weakness and I simply don't agree. We have 7 guys that play significant minutes, which I admit seems like a lack of depth on the surface. However, we certainly don't seem to fade down the stretch and we haven't had a lot foul trouble this year, so where's this "weakness"?

    What we have more of than anyone I've watched play this year is multidimensional players. To me, that IS depth, because we have multiple guys that can do every skill (rebounding, shooting, scoring, passing, etc.) instead of needing to put in different guys when different things are needed. Our guys simply are not 1-trick ponies. Of the 7 guys we have that play every one of them show up in the top 10 of individual stats in at least 3 different categories. If you compare that to Iowa who has this "incredible depth", they have 1 guy that shows up in more than 3 categories (White).

    I don't know which kind of depth you'd rather have, but I'd rather have 7 guys that can actually do multiple things which makes them tougher to defend, than I would have 11 guys play that can only do one thing.



  2. #2
    Hall-Of-Famer
    Points: 40,541, Level: 62
    Level completed: 15%, Points required for next Level: 1,109
    Overall activity: 42.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    CyTwins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ames
    Posts
    4,524
    Points
    40,541
    Level
    62
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 350
    Given: 279

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    Talent > Depth

    ISU could play 11 guys and be considered deep but there is no point unless there is foul trouble



  3. #3
    Legend
    Points: 209,271, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 32.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    MNCyGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Des Moines
    Posts
    10,540
    Points
    209,271
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 396
    Given: 257

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    I had a similar thought yesterday when I caught a bit of Miller and Brinson's Monday basketball show on my way home. Brinson was going on and on about how worried he was about the lack of production, numbers-wise from our bench in the tourney. This team, even without going deep down the bench, has a lot of flexibility to absorb off-nights from one of it's Big 3. It was just driving me nuts because if you've watched any of this run, unless we have another WVU game where NOTHING is working, it's just not a huge issue for this team.



  4. #4
    Bench Warmer
    Points: 6,829, Level: 24
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rural U.S.A.
    Posts
    284
    Points
    6,829
    Level
    24
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 32
    Given: 0

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    True. Also, Thomas and Long have scored double digits several times this year. Naz against Mich, Iowa, and Tech off the top of my head. Plus the Okie St game (big plays). Thomas went for double digits against OU and KSU recently. That's a pretty good bench. Even if the guy on 1460 can't grasp that concept. Heck, if Walker and Edozie actually played more, they would look the part as well. ISU has depth. 7 good players who can score is pretty good depth IMO.



  5. #5
    Speechless
    Points: 728,887, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 44.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Cyclonepride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    A pineapple under the sea
    Posts
    47,214
    Points
    728,887
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,146
    Given: 599

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    I'd much rather play the best 7 or 8. I believe they get into a rhythm that way. Also, I agree with the multidimensional aspect. We can and have intermixed almost all of the guys without much drop off.



  6. #6
    Speechless
    Points: 254,544, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 28.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    Cydkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    15,537
    Points
    254,544
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 468
    Given: 419

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    We aren't deep. It's that simple. I don't know why people are afraid to admit it. If Naz and Matt play well it doesn't matter. If they don't, it's a factor.

    A lot of teams don't have depth and it probably is overrated but it doesn't change the fact.



  7. #7
    All-Star
    Points: 30,347, Level: 53
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 503
    Overall activity: 10.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    Psiclone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Iowa City
    Posts
    1,541
    Points
    30,347
    Level
    53
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 70
    Given: 92

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    Quote Originally Posted by 88clone View Post
    I know there has been talk about our depth in the national media as a weakness and I simply don't agree. We have 7 guys that play significant minutes, which I admit seems like a lack of depth on the surface. However, we certainly don't seem to fade down the stretch and we haven't had a lot foul trouble this year, so where's this "weakness"?

    What we have more of than anyone I've watched play this year is multidimensional players. To me, that IS depth, because we have multiple guys that can do every skill (rebounding, shooting, scoring, passing, etc.) instead of needing to put in different guys when different things are needed. Our guys simply are not 1-trick ponies. Of the 7 guys we have that play every one of them show up in the top 10 of individual stats in at least 3 different categories. If you compare that to Iowa who has this "incredible depth", they have 1 guy that shows up in more than 3 categories (White).

    I don't know which kind of depth you'd rather have, but I'd rather have 7 guys that can actually do multiple things which makes them tougher to defend, than I would have 11 guys play that can only do one thing.
    I disagree to an extent. I think our starters are playing too many minutes and fatigue is a factor in why we are not holding on to large leads and letting teams back in. Hilton counters that to an extent as the players get more energy from the crowd, which is true for most teams. If our bench were scoring like they were earlier in the year, our starters would get more rest. This will be more of a factor in the Big XII and NCAA tournaments.


    "Of course the people don't want war ... the people can always be brought to do the bidding of the leaders. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger."
    -- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

  8. #8
    Hall-Of-Famer
    Points: 76,189, Level: 85
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 361
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    gogagig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,563
    Points
    76,189
    Level
    85
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 54
    Given: 17

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    it's been said here a couple of times by someone, and it's brilliant- 7 dimes better than 10 nickels.



  9. #9
    Hall-Of-Famer
    Points: 43,182, Level: 64
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 1,068
    Overall activity: 10.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    heitclone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Malvern, IA
    Posts
    4,518
    Points
    43,182
    Level
    64
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 78
    Given: 189

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    Our bench last year was basically one guy and we held our own all year. Quality > Quantity. To kind of piggie back what the OP said, who you have coming off of there is the most important thing. Talent and versatility are more valuable than bodies. I've seen really good ISU teams, that played as physical as anyone run with 6 or 7 guys and do just fine come March.



  10. #10
    Bench Warmer
    Points: 8,421, Level: 27
    Level completed: 46%, Points required for next Level: 329
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    5000 Experience Points3 months registered
    88clone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    West Des Moines
    Posts
    240
    Points
    8,421
    Level
    27
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 110
    Given: 53

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    I guess I'm not as worried about fatigue. Kane and Ejim are the only 2 that are averaging more than 30 minutes per game, which I think they would/should do if we were 10 deep.



  11. #11
    Speechless
    Points: 254,544, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 28.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    Cydkar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    15,537
    Points
    254,544
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 468
    Given: 419

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    Quote Originally Posted by gogagig View Post
    it's been said here a couple of times by someone, and it's brilliant- 7 dimes better than 10 nickels.
    8 dimes > 7 dimes. I'd like one more dime and I'm not convinced Naz isn't a nickel right now. We will need him to step up come tourney time.



  12. #12
    Addict
    Points: 87,757, Level: 92
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 1,593
    Overall activity: 99.4%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    5,542
    Points
    87,757
    Level
    92
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 920
    Given: 48

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    The only real situational subs I've seen is in end of game situations when Fred is subbing Thomas and Hogue in offense/defense situations.

    Also, while we all want more bench points, I think it's less important when three of your starters average over 15 a game each. Not many teams have that luxury.



  13. #13
    Hall-Of-Famer
    Points: 95,394, Level: 96
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 1,656
    Overall activity: 37.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    ribsnwhiskey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ames
    Posts
    4,231
    Points
    95,394
    Level
    96
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 566
    Given: 129

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    Quote Originally Posted by MNCyGuy View Post
    I had a similar thought yesterday when I caught a bit of Miller and Brinson's Monday basketball show on my way home. Brinson was going on and on about how worried he was about the lack of production, numbers-wise from our bench in the tourney. This team, even without going deep down the bench, has a lot of flexibility to absorb off-nights from one of it's Big 3. It was just driving me nuts because if you've watched any of this run, unless we have another WVU game where NOTHING is working, it's just not a huge issue for this team.
    Don't start about Brinson. He's a clueless loudmouth. I only listen to that show on Monday's to hear Sullivan and Settles. Some of the questions Brinson asks are cringeworthy. Some of our best teams that have been most successful only went 2 or 3 deep on the bench. It's been forced into our heads how great depth is because of EIU playing 18 guys/game. When 16 of em are average basketball players, you get what they have.



  14. #14
    Hall-Of-Famer
    Points: 40,541, Level: 62
    Level completed: 15%, Points required for next Level: 1,109
    Overall activity: 42.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    CyTwins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ames
    Posts
    4,524
    Points
    40,541
    Level
    62
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 350
    Given: 279

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrocksmypants View Post
    The only real situational subs I've seen is in end of game situations when Fred is subbing Thomas and Hogue in offense/defense situations.

    Also, while we all want more bench points, I think it's less important when three of your starters average over 15 a game each. Not many teams have that luxury.
    I might be the only one that doesn't care about bench points at all. If every game can play out like the Texas game I'd be thrilled. We win and our big 3 put up big points and get more and more pub.



  15. #15
    Addict
    Points: 74,701, Level: 84
    Level completed: 92%, Points required for next Level: 149
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Bigman38's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Council Bluffs, IA
    Posts
    5,146
    Points
    74,701
    Level
    84
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 230
    Given: 334

    Re: Multidimensional players = depth

    Ideally there would be one more post to rotate in for a few minutes. But going 7 deep is fine, their's enough quality there that it's not a problem.

    If you think fatigue is a factor I'd tell you to go take a look at the minutes played on other teams. The best players in the league play the same minutes as our best players. And you only play 2 games a week in the NCAA tourney with 1 days rest, which this team has done multiple times this year.


    "But letís see if the Cyclones can give everyone a nice big ****burger to eat. Opportunity awaits." -Brent Blum

    "I am the one who knocks" -Walter White

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • TV: Fox Sports 1
  • Iowa State vs. North Dakota State
  • August 30, 2014
  • 11:00 AM