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  1. #31
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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Quote Originally Posted by pourcyne View Post
    Which one would you trust with your keys? That's the better man.

    Which one would you trust with your kid? That's the better coach.

    Answers: Dreamy and Dreamy.

    Just curious about how Selfish's graduation rate stacks up with Fred's.
    Graduation rate is moot if your players "graduate" to the pros.



  2. #32
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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Say they both are NBA coaches of roughly evenly talented teams who you got?
    If they both had equal talent vs each other I would take Fred any day of the week. But in college self has a lopsided talent advantage.



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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Hard to argue against Self...as has been said, his record speaks for itself, he can recruit the good players, and his teams are tough and sound.

    Hoiberg has done a great job. Last year, his third year, had Royce White stuck around for more than one year (and been able to avoid melting down), Hoiberg IMO would have assembled a squad could have taken the Big 12 title and quite possibly gone to the Final Four...that's impressive for year 3.

    Last year (and this year is looking to be the same), ISU seems just one player away from jumping into the elite of college basketball...Hoiberg needs to find that guy who can defend the paint and provide some easy points close to the hoop.


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  4. #34
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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Self is arguably the best coach in the game right now. Until we win a few championships, this isn't really even a question.



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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Hoiberg would not have lost 4 games with the talent that Self has.


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  6. #36
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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Quote Originally Posted by BigCojones View Post
    Say they both are NBA coaches of roughly evenly talented teams who you got?
    If they both had equal talent vs each other I would take Fred any day of the week. But in college self has a lopsided talent advantage.
    Yes. Right now, it's like asking "Who is better - the casino or the guy at the blackjack table?"

    Ask again in 2-3 years.


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  7. #37
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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Quote Originally Posted by Motown View Post
    In the classroom, Kansas has achieved an Academic Progress Rate (APR) score of a perfect 1,000 in each of the last six years under Self. In the Bill Self era, Kansas has had 25 Academic All-Big 12 selections, which is best in the conference, and 26 of 27 four-year players at KU have earned their degrees.

    Kansas
    Thank you for the info.

    I have a sneaking hunch, however, that those figures include college-wide athletics (just looking at the wording) and not just the men's basketball team, especially since those figures seem to clash with those published here.

    I wonder also how many of the four-year players counted ever really played on the court?

    Then again, I'm sure other schools do the same sort of manipulation with figures, especially all of those that list their graduation rate at 100%. Seems a little too good to be true.



  8. #38
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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    sigh....Its threads like these why this website has become hard to read. Self is much much better.


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  9. #39
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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Some of you are comparing resumes, which isn't exactly fair. That said, Self is a great coach. And from everything I have read, seen, and heard is that he a good guy.

    Swap coaches. Where would they be? Where would we be?



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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Quote Originally Posted by pourcyne View Post
    Thank you for the info.

    I have a sneaking hunch, however, that those figures include college-wide athletics (just looking at the wording) and not just the men's basketball team, especially since those figures seem to clash with those published here.

    I wonder also how many of the four-year players counted ever really played on the court?

    Then again, I'm sure other schools do the same sort of manipulation with figures, especially all of those that list their graduation rate at 100%. Seems a little too good to be true.
    There isn't any manipulation, Kansas has had a nearly flawless track record on the hoops side. Turner Gill hurt our football players in the classroom and on the field, but Weis has turned much of the former around.

    Every player under Self who didn't transfer out or leave for the pros early finished with a degree. A few earned masters. Aldrich was an academic All-American who returned last year to take a couple classes to finish his degree (after leaving early in '10).

    I understand the disdain for KU around here, but they have a solid track record with their student-athletes (and sure, many are much more athlete than student).

    KU wins the Academic Performance Tournament national championship / LJWorld.com



  11. #41
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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    I didn't read the thread but if you trade talent I think CFH wins big rather than the way Self has managed wins.



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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Self obviously has better results. Self obviously is annoying and I hate him. So would I trade Hoiberg for Self? Not unless you got me Kansas players (which you wouldn't at Iowa State) and even then I'd be annoyed with our coach.

    If Hoiberg was at an elite basketball school, his results would probably similar to Self's. If Hoiberg sticks around college basketball as long as Self, I'm guessing he could be as good.



  13. #43
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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclophile1 View Post
    Self is arguably the best coach in the game right now. Until we win a few championships, this isn't really even a question.
    Why is it even arguable? He hasn't not won the conference since his first year. You probably have Calipari, Boeheim, Izzo, and Petino in his class but it isn't particularly close in results. The guys has never had a bad year since he took over a team that won 5 games the year before. I didn't know it today until I look but his resume is just astounding. He's up there in the best of all time IMO. The guy strikes a balance in recruiting and actual coaching that is very hard to find.


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  14. #44
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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    Quote Originally Posted by pourcyne View Post
    Thank you for the info.

    I have a sneaking hunch, however, that those figures include college-wide athletics (just looking at the wording) and not just the men's basketball team, especially since those figures seem to clash with those published here.

    I wonder also how many of the four-year players counted ever really played on the court?

    Then again, I'm sure other schools do the same sort of manipulation with figures, especially all of those that list their graduation rate at 100%. Seems a little too good to be true.
    This is ridiculous. All of it.


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  15. #45
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    Re: Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

    When it comes to coaching, how much is recruiting and how much is actual coaching?

    I think CFH has shown that he has the potential to be a better coach than Self in some aspects, but not all. KU teams are almost always prepared, they rarely get beat mentally, and they have the ability to win at whatever tempo you want.

    The recruiting part of coaching is sooooo important in college--you absolutely cannot win without talent. Fred is still coming along in that department, but is trending up quickly.



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