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  1. #121
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by isufbcurt View Post
    Honest answer I don't know what I would do. The offense needs to improve no doubt about it. I guess my approach would be this I would talk to various coaches (probably a top 5 list) that I would be interested in bringing in as an OC and if one of them is interested and would commit then I would replace. I would not replace without having someone already lined up that I really wanted.
    I appreciate your thoughts regarding our current OC. That would be a sensible plan to first see what is available (and willing), before taking action. I, personally, don't generally second guess play calling. It's easy to say "that was stupid", when a play doesn't work. But, what I really have disliked is Mess throwing players "under the bus". It probaably is due to having a number of family members playing college sports (brother and a nephew were college football players, and later high school coaches). But my temperature has risen (several times) when I listen to Messingham's interviews answering as to why our offense is being unproductive.



  2. #122
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUFan22 View Post
    Because Flynn has a proven track record for coaching?

    Yeah, someone will throw out a Fred Hoiberg - because all former athletes work out just like Fred...
    He's just as proven as Messingham. Messingham had a ton of experience but that experience was mediocrity.


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  3. #123
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post
    Serious question, because I don't have the first-person knowledge of college FB.

    What would you do if you were CPR?

    Would you keep the entire staff intact, and tell everybody that this year was an unfortunate combination of young players and injuries? Or do you fire the OC, and risk the incontinuity and change in strategy that may result in some rebuilding?
    Honestly, I don't know how you keep him. My main problem isn't even the playcalling anymore even though there are some incredibly dumb things that are done. I don't like how he has handled the QBs from a teaching perspective and I don't like how he seems to take no responsibility. I just think his system is incoherent and I personally don't think you can run a spread option offense the way he is doing that. I think it has to be predicated on leverage and not simply execution of what you think you want to do. I just don't believe he a good enough offensive mind or QB coach for this level.


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  4. #124
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tre4ISU View Post
    Honestly, I don't know how you keep him. My main problem isn't even the playcalling anymore even though there are some incredibly dumb things that are done. I don't like how he has handled the QBs from a teaching perspective and I don't like how he seems to take no responsibility. I just think his system is incoherent and I personally don't think you can run a spread option offense the way he is doing that. I think it has to be predicated on leverage and not simply execution of what you think you want to do. I just don't believe he a good enough offensive mind or QB coach for this level.
    I agree. QB development just isn't up to par.


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  5. #125
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    It boggles my mind how people still support Mess. Most that are calling for him to be gone aren't doing it from one or two games. We're judging it by two freaking years! Listen, I'm a multi-unit manager. I have 12 stores under me, each with managers. If I were to have a blatantly clueless manager that's proven time and time again that he's ineffecient at running a store, it doesn't matter if he's had a lot of people call in sick, or had to replace his staff. If he can't do the job, he's got to go. And usually he's relieved when he's let to, because HE knows he's not getting the job done. But if I say "I'm going to keep him for another year and hope he doesn't kill my business to the point I have to close the store down" then not only is my boss firin him, but my boss is firing me too.

    And interviewing a top 5 while still maintaining the current person is a cop out. That's like saying to your wife "I kind of like you, but I'm gonna bang these five other chicks, and if I like one of them more, I'm divorcing you."



  6. #126
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by awd4cy View Post
    It's pretty simple. If Rhoads doesn't get rid of him then it will cost him his job within the next couple years.
    It's pretty simple. Just because fans are scapegoating Messingham, doesn't mean they're right.




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  7. #127
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrocksmypants View Post
    It boggles my mind how people still support Mess. Most that are calling for him to be gone aren't doing it from one or two games. We're judging it by two freaking years! Listen, I'm a multi-unit manager. I have 12 stores under me, each with managers. If I were to have a blatantly clueless manager that's proven time and time again that he's ineffecient at running a store, it doesn't matter if he's had a lot of people call in sick, or had to replace his staff. If he can't do the job, he's got to go.
    I'm sorry, I had to smile when I read this, because I applaud someone attempting to translate their own real life experiences to the OC position.

    Onb the other hand, I have to ask--what give you the "real life" experience to declare Messingham "clueless"?

    Let's use your own examples, and make them a bit better parallel. Say, for example, that you had a manager at one store whose results were unaccetpable over the two years they had been at the helm. Of course, the actual fact is, the results were also subpar the three years before that manager took over the position. And the five years before that. So...do you seriously blame that manager?

    Or, say that a manager takes over, and just as he/she starts to get his feet on the ground, the street in front of the store is closed for construction for the better part of a year. Again, do you blame the manager for that fall in sales?

    Just curious. The parallel to all of the injuries on the offensive line (and elsewhere) is pretty obvious...




    Paul Rhoads' players never quit.


  8. #128
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aclone View Post
    I'm sorry, I had to smile when I read this, because I applaud someone attempting to translate their own real life experiences to the OC position.

    Onb the other hand, I have to ask--what give you the "real life" experience to declare Messingham "clueless"?

    Let's use your own examples, and make them a bit better parallel. Say, for example, that you had a manager at one store whose results were unaccetpable over the two years they had been at the helm. Of course, the actual fact is, the results were also subpar the three years before that manager took over the position. And the five years before that. So...do you seriously blame that manager?

    Or, say that a manager takes over, and just as he/she starts to get his feet on the ground, the street in front of the store is closed for construction for the better part of a year. Again, do you blame the manager for that fall in sales?

    Just curious. The parallel to all of the injuries on the offensive line (and elsewhere) is pretty obvious...
    If the manager's results are even more pathetic than the previous manager's then yes, you fire them.



  9. #129
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUFan22 View Post
    Because Flynn has a proven track record for coaching?

    Yeah, someone will throw out a Fred Hoiberg - because all former athletes work out just like Fred...
    Quote Originally Posted by jburke View Post
    Not proven yet, but Austin is coaching at Grandview and doing a pretty great job, the problem is he is a D-cordinator and not a offensive coach. If you want a Offensive corrdinator for former player, maybe go Attif Austin or Todd Blythe.
    Flynn is the OC and has done well. Looking at Messingham's previous experience, Flynn is scoring more points and winning more games. (Granted it is a very small sample size for Flynn)

    The Grand Views : Flynn moves to Iowa; brings family, offense with him
    The Grand Views : Memorable campaign ends, playoff push begins
    Grand View Athletics - 2013 Football Schedule

    Fewest points scored is 21 in the season opener in the big upset of Drake. They are averaging about 37 points per game. Notice I said it was my ideal scenario and that Flynn would learn big time football as a QB coach/TE (or whatever) not step right in and be the OC or head coach.



  10. #130
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Still surprised Flynn is up here. Did he get married to Texans cheerleader?



  11. #131
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Let me pose a semi-devil's advocate question: If Rhoads does replace Messingham, and the offense sputters again next season, will fans direct more criticism toward (a) the new coordinator or (b) the head coach?

    If the answer is (a), something is seriously amiss.



  12. #132
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclones500 View Post
    Let me pose a semi-devil's advocate question: If Rhoads does replace Messingham, and the offense sputters again next season, will fans direct more criticism toward (a) the new coordinator or (b) the head coach?

    If the answer is (a), something is seriously amiss.
    Dude, that's exactly what happened at ISU last year when Herman left to go to OSU. Cyclone fans like to pretend an OC has a magic wand to cure everything that ails ISU. But it boils down to beating the guy across from you, and we haven't done that enough--on both sides of the ball.



  13. #133
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Last night a caller asked CPR about ditching the zone read vs KU and he said they did based in field conditions. Maybe that showed we can have more success with a standard run/power style? Hope so!!



  14. #134
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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aclone View Post
    It's pretty simple. Just because fans are scapegoating Messingham, doesn't mean they're right.
    It doesn't mean the are wrong either.

    I'll ask again, what has he done to show that he deserves another year? Why not try and right the ship instead of doubling down on the guy leading one of the worst offensive units in college football?



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    Re: Ok enough day dreams do you think Mess is gone after the season for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclones500 View Post
    Let me pose a semi-devil's advocate question: If Rhoads does replace Messingham, and the offense sputters again next season, will fans direct more criticism toward (a) the new coordinator or (b) the head coach?

    If the answer is (a), something is seriously amiss.
    I believe the new OC would get 2 years for fans to make that decision. If in 2 years we are still terrible offensively, then that's on the head coach.



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