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  1. #61
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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mowilly View Post
    Guessing you did not like those- that's cool- just thoughts I threw out there. I agree w. your ideas for offense- fast, spread, attack and score. Also agree CPR needs to let go- so to speak. If you think this secondary is good- you know nothing about football and I am guessing you must know something. Awful, awful play from a unit most felt was possibly our strongest. Poor technique and regression. English is just a dream-agreed. Too good to come here for sure. I noticed you have yet to make any suggestions- just criticism of others opinion. Any suggestion of possible candidates or are you going to keep this current passive-aggressive trend going?
    Please elaborate on what is wrong with the defensive backs technique?



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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tre4ISU View Post
    LOL. Our DBs coach is awful? Ok, whatever that's a fine opinion but then you think you are going to hire Ron English who is a head coach and previously successful DC to come in and replace him? Then you have a figurehead in Koenig as the answer to OC? Brookhardt doesn't want to coach anymore. Canales may be okay but he probably doesn't have the chops for the Big 12.
    Should have noted- the three names I went with all have a relationship to at least one member of our staff. I cannot see CPR hiring someone outside of his (or someone he knows well) circle of influence. He won't bring a complete stranger on staff- he simply is not wired like that. very relationship based.



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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Chuck Long is a ******* bad coach. There is a reason he is out of coaching and is going to stay out of coaching.

    If a guy can win in football at Kansas, there is no reason not to give him an offer to be the OC at ISU. So what if he has baggage, he wont be the head guy.


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  4. #64
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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luth4Cy View Post
    Please elaborate on what is wrong with the defensive backs technique?
    Do I start w/ tackling, footwork or assignments? (and I am aware that one of the leagues leading tacklers is in this group- he could have 20 more tackles than he has)
    Do I provide examples of Texas, TTU or Baylor games?
    Do I show film of Washington and Broomy from 2 years ago?

    Sure, lack of pass rush (in a 3 step drop league) does not help things. Possibly, new players will make Douglas a better coach as sometime that happens.



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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Quote Originally Posted by PickSix View Post
    I'd like to see us go with a triple-option offense. We'll have the talent at the skill positions in the coming seasons to make it work, assuming we can find another Woody type for the fullback.

    Ok Jim.


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  6. #66
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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mowilly View Post
    Do I start w/ tackling, footwork or assignments? (and I am aware that one of the leagues leading tacklers is in this group- he could have 20 more tackles than he has)
    Do I provide examples of Texas, TTU or Baylor games?
    Do I show film of Washington and Broomy from 2 years ago?

    Sure, lack of pass rush (in a 3 step drop league) does not help things. Possibly, new players will make Douglas a better coach as sometime that happens.
    Tackling has been poor, but it's been poor all around this year. I'm honestly not going to fault Douglas for that. I suppose it's possible footwork is bad, but our defensive backs usually appear to be in the right place, so it must not be too terrible. And with assignments I'm not sure what you're referring too.

    From what I can tell, our defensive backs have been the best position group on the defensive side of the ball this year.



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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aclone View Post
    I'm curious--how is it that "we" fire Messingham?

    'Cause I'm pretty sure that Paul Rhoads isn't gonna do it.
    Then we really need to start questioning CPR. I really don't know how he can bring him back. Hell the last 2 seasons he has kinda ripped on what is going on, on offense, he has to be getting tired of this lack of performance. If he don't let Mess go than its his job next.


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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luth4Cy View Post
    Tackling has been poor, but it's been poor all around this year. I'm honestly not going to fault Douglas for that. I suppose it's possible footwork is bad, but our defensive backs usually appear to be in the right place, so it must not be too terrible. And with assignments I'm not sure what you're referring too.

    From what I can tell, our defensive backs have been the best position group on the defensive side of the ball this year.
    Agree on tackling- i had pretty high expectations for those safeties. Safety play (again) has been slow in picking up receivers be it over top or just basic crossing plays. Amaro from TTU (Sp) toasted our guys, it was Jacques many times. Giving Tribune a break here. Felt Sam was improving. Watson has disappointed as well- injury may be why. Feel that Watson and Jacques have played themselves out of invitations to training camps next summer.



  9. #69
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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    I really disagree on Watson being disappointing. Only times I remember being disappointed with him was when he was clearly injured. I do agree on safeties though. I think they are good as typical safeties who can sit back in coverage, but in the Big 12 they are asked to cover a lot. I think the issues there are more so due to lack of talent than coaching.



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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mowilly View Post
    Guessing you did not like those- that's cool- just thoughts I threw out there. I agree w. your ideas for offense- fast, spread, attack and score. Also agree CPR needs to let go- so to speak. If you think this secondary is good- you know nothing about football and I am guessing you must know something. Awful, awful play from a unit most felt was possibly our strongest. Poor technique and regression. English is just a dream-agreed. Too good to come here for sure. I noticed you have yet to make any suggestions- just criticism of others opinion. Any suggestion of possible candidates or are you going to keep this current passive-aggressive trend going?
    Our DBs have been fine from a positioning standpoint. They haven't made big plays but they have gotten Tribune to a point where he is almost always in position. Broomfield and JW are not guys fit for man coverage and even with saying that they have been OK in that aspect. Douglas isn't in charge of scheme. The secondary, and defense as a whole, has been bad for the most part. Some of that's scheme, some is fundamentals and some is being in ****** situations time after time. You also have to look at what Douglas did with Givens last year. Givens was a huge loss that no one really realized.

    I would love to have English on staff. I just don't see the defensive side changing.

    Offensively, I wanted Frost when they promoted Mess. At that time, he was a WR coach I believe and Kelly wasn't thought to be going anywhere and Belloti was in front of him. It's not happening now. I still want to go with someone young, buried within one of these systems that work and someone that has worked under someone successful even if they weren't an OC. I think that Halgorsen will be a valued commodity if he is fired but he would obviously be a good hire. I mentioned Rod Smith before. There needs to be someone who can develop and coach a QB. Actually Lincoln Riley isn't a bad suggestion.


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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mowilly View Post
    Agree on tackling- i had pretty high expectations for those safeties. Safety play (again) has been slow in picking up receivers be it over top or just basic crossing plays. Amaro from TTU (Sp) toasted our guys, it was Jacques many times. Giving Tribune a break here. Felt Sam was improving. Watson has disappointed as well- injury may be why. Feel that Watson and Jacques have played themselves out of invitations to training camps next summer.
    I think Wally has been forced to go with more man this year because our LBs take awful drops and zone just did not work. Then he mans up and just hopes we can cover it. I would knock the ability of our guys to make plays on the ball but it's not like they are completely losing guys which is most of the battle.


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  12. #72
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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tre4ISU View Post
    Our DBs have been fine from a positioning standpoint. They haven't made big plays but they have gotten Tribune to a point where he is almost always in position. Broomfield and JW are not guys fit for man coverage and even with saying that they have been OK in that aspect. Douglas isn't in charge of scheme. The secondary, and defense as a whole, has been bad for the most part. Some of that's scheme, some is fundamentals and some is being in ****** situations time after time. You also have to look at what Douglas did with Givens last year. Givens was a huge loss that no one really realized.

    I would love to have English on staff. I just don't see the defensive side changing.

    Offensively, I wanted Frost when they promoted Mess. At that time, he was a WR coach I believe and Kelly wasn't thought to be going anywhere and Belloti was in front of him. It's not happening now. I still want to go with someone young, buried within one of these systems that work and someone that has worked under someone successful even if they weren't an OC. I think that Halgorsen will be a valued commodity if he is fired but he would obviously be a good hire. I mentioned Rod Smith before. There needs to be someone who can develop and coach a QB. Actually Lincoln Riley isn't a bad suggestion.
    Great stuff and I do not disagree. I may have had to high of expectation for the position group. I did not realize how bad out safety would be (coverage related) and it has left me unsatisfied, I guess. I was totally on the Frost train as that was a hire w/ vision. We need this next one to be like that.



  13. #73
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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    I would like to see someone who has shown some history with good player development. I really can't think of one player on the offense in the last 5 years who has drastically improved over what we saw on their first snap. Our QBs, running backs and receivers all seem to show some promise, but never move past that.

    I'm not really as concerned with Xs and Os as I am getting a who can get the most out of the players he has.



  14. #74
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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    I would put more money on Mess being back then having a new OC for next year. My guess is Paul thinks this is a player personnel problem (with him to blame for the situation we are in) more than a coordinator problem.


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    Re: If we fire Messingham what type of OC could we get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Incyte View Post
    I would put more money on Mess being back then having a new OC for next year. My guess is Paul thinks this is a player personnel problem (with him to blame for the situation we are in) more than a coordinator problem.
    Do not disagree with you, but from a fan perspective, can you imagine the bad taste/lack of enthusiasm that will lead up to the season.

    If CPR comes out after the season and says Mess will be back, we are in for the longest, most unexciting, and pessimistic off-seasons in a long time.



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