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    How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    Let's take a look at the first few series at Baylor. We kick off. Defense does it's job, forces a punt (Baylor has scored on each of it's prior first possessions). Special teams does it's job, great return gives great field position in Baylor territory. Now, the offense takes the field with a little momentum on our side, on the other side we have a jacked up defense playing their homecoming game. Most OC's would look at this situation and think I've got to run some sort of run fake and send a shot down field to try to keep this momentum and help take the crowd get out of the game. Maybe draw a pass interference, maybe catch it for a t.d., who knows? But it's worth shot in this situation.
    Here's how Mess approaches the great situation the defense and special teams have provided. We throw a 2 yard quick pass that is dropped, well covered. Even if it was caught, two yard gain. Now the crowd gets into the game, we make a false start. 2nd and 15 now. Straight drop back, 9 yard pass caught. Crowd is really into it. 3rd and 6. Drop back again miss a 5 yard pass that is well covered. Punt into end zone. Any momentum we had is gone.
    Baylor has the ball on it's next series and sees that the defense is still playing good disciplined football. The #12 team in the nation sees that it is going to have to use some trickery to get a big play, move the ball and get the home crowd back in the game. A few plays later and a great throw and catch and the home team is up 7-0.
    Our next series we show the option read, hand off for a small gain, but fumble. Baylor ball. A few plays later, 14-0. It's happening quickly.
    Our next series we show option read again. With a hurt quarter back we do move the ball into Baylor territory. 3-9 yards at a time. We have the ball 2 and 1 in Baylor territory. Down 14-0, most OC's would look at this situation and see a great opportunity to take a shot down field. Maybe draw pass interference, maybe catch it for a t.d., who knows? But it's worth a shot in this situation.
    Here's how Mess approaches. Option read (with a banged up quarterback, mind you) running back stuffed, no gain. 3rd and 1. Same slow developing play, stuffed. No gain. Punt.

    I'm not saying we would have won, but we have to have better play calling in these situations. I don't care what anyone says. The defense has been doing it's job all season. If we score in these two situations the game is probably 20-14 at halftime. Completely different game. Instead it's 37-0 and the game is over....

    In the Iowa game and Texas games we went 3 and out our first few series taking the home crowd right out of the games.

    We simply cannot line up in a basic formation and think we are going to run the option read with a hurt quarterback.

    Mess doesn't seem to understand that if we don't take shots down field the other team will crowd the line and stop the option read. And he seems to not understand seizing momentum. We are not big enough to out man anyone. I could go on and on. Something has to change.



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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    Another one?
    tldr


    Quote Originally Posted by AltHawk View Post
    Why would it? One bad game doesn't change a thing. Iowa will still be a darkhorse B1G championship contender, and Iowa State will be lucky to make the NIT.

    If you ask the basketball analysts outside the state of Iowa I think you would be surprised to hear their responses. Iowa was pegged as a preseason top 5 team by one ESPN analyst and is ranked in the vast, vast majority of preseason top 25 polls

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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    Quote Originally Posted by thegetaway View Post
    Let's take a look at the first few series at Baylor. We kick off. Defense does it's job, forces a punt (Baylor has scored on each of it's prior first possessions). Special teams does it's job, great return gives great field position in Baylor territory. Now, the offense takes the field with a little momentum on our side, on the other side we have a jacked up defense playing their homecoming game. Most OC's would look at this situation and think I've got to run some sort of run fake and send a shot down field to try to keep this momentum and help take the crowd get out of the game. Maybe draw a pass interference, maybe catch it for a t.d., who knows? But it's worth shot in this situation.
    Here's how Mess approaches the great situation the defense and special teams have provided. We throw a 2 yard quick pass that is dropped, well covered. Even if it was caught, two yard gain. Now the crowd gets into the game, we make a false start. 2nd and 15 now. Straight drop back, 9 yard pass caught. Crowd is really into it. 3rd and 6. Drop back again miss a 5 yard pass that is well covered. Punt into end zone. Any momentum we had is gone.
    Baylor has the ball on it's next series and sees that the defense is still playing good disciplined football. The #12 team in the nation sees that it is going to have to use some trickery to get a big play, move the ball and get the home crowd back in the game. A few plays later and a great throw and catch and the home team is up 7-0.
    Our next series we show the option read, hand off for a small gain, but fumble. Baylor ball. A few plays later, 14-0. It's happening quickly.
    Our next series we show option read again. With a hurt quarter back we do move the ball into Baylor territory. 3-9 yards at a time. We have the ball 2 and 1 in Baylor territory. Down 14-0, most OC's would look at this situation and see a great opportunity to take a shot down field. Maybe draw pass interference, maybe catch it for a t.d., who knows? But it's worth a shot in this situation.
    Here's how Mess approaches. Option read (with a banged up quarterback, mind you) running back stuffed, no gain. 3rd and 1. Same slow developing play, stuffed. No gain. Punt.

    I'm not saying we would have won, but we have to have better play calling in these situations. I don't care what anyone says. The defense has been doing it's job all season. If we score in these two situations the game is probably 20-14 at halftime. Completely different game. Instead it's 37-0 and the game is over....

    In the Iowa game and Texas games we went 3 and out our first few series taking the home crowd right out of the games.

    We simply cannot line up in a basic formation and think we are going to run the option read with a hurt quarterback.

    Mess doesn't seem to understand that if we don't take shots down field the other team will crowd the line and stop the option read. And he seems to not understand seizing momentum. We are not big enough to out man anyone. I could go on and on. Something has to change.
    False.

    Also, remember the AmesTrib story after the Iowa game? It's Mess that wants to take more shots down field and Rhoads who wants shorter throws.



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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    I'm not sure we really need to keep rehashing this, but since someone else started the thread, let me add a few of my thoughts to the mix here. Of anything we do on offense, the one thing I can't stand and definitely hurts us more than helps us, is to get up to the line quickly, then hold, look back to the coaches for a new signal, audible out, or not, then proceed to take the entire time off the play clock before we snap the ball and run the read option again. It would be different if we looked to the sideline and then changed up how we lined up at first, but we never do. Our offense isn't that tricky in the first place. When you give the other team a full 25 seconds to get set and figure out what you are running, it's idiotic.

    I mean if you are going to do this kind of thing wouldn't you look at the Defensive set and run plays away from the strengths they've set up. Seems half the time we go ahead and run right where they thought we were going. It's especially bad on passing. Seems every team knows exactly when to go after the QB.

    I know this is based strongly on the Herman offense, which is in place at Ohio State, but watching that game, honestly the bad plays they had were a result of the same situations I see us struggle with. The big difference there is that they have enough pure athletes and top recruits to actually over come a terrible offensive scheme.



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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    Why I think Mess is a bad OC, ISU's suck can be equally attributed to the defense this season. However, Wally is proven, and his D has actually improved since game 1, so people wont, and shouldn't, be calling for his head.



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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    Quote Originally Posted by LawyerClone View Post
    False.

    Also, remember the AmesTrib story after the Iowa game? It's Mess that wants to take more shots down field and Rhoads who wants shorter throws.
    throw the deep ball when the line can't block at all. sounds like Mess.


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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    I get the fans want Mess gone, but we are now blaming him for Ecby dropping the first pass of the game? I also could be wrong (I have no desire to watch the game again), but wasn't that about a 6-7 yard pass play?


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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    Mess deserves some harsh criticism but that first drive was poor execution not bad playcalling. Hard to blame the OC for 2 drops and a false start.


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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    I want Mess gone, but that your post does not properly make the case for that. You can't blame the OC for dropped passes and a fumble.



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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    Quote Originally Posted by Daserop View Post
    throw the deep ball when the line can't block at all. sounds like Mess.
    Taking shots down field is stupid for this team. All you are going to do is get the QB killed. We have no line play currently and our down field routes are usually timed with a sand hour glass. We don't take advantage of our TE's at all. We had drops everywhere. Ecby to start the game. Bundrage had a beautiful slant pattern that would of gained big yards that went through his hands. We have poorly thrown balls.

    And don't get me started on read option that some high school teams run faster then ours...


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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamJGray View Post
    I get the fans want Mess gone, but we are now blaming him for Ecby dropping the first pass of the game? I also could be wrong (I have no desire to watch the game again), but wasn't that about a 6-7 yard pass play?
    Yes you are correct. But people on here have an agenda and can't look at what ACTUALLY happened.

    All I heard before is "We come out and run, run, run for the first series of the game". Well we came out and on the first series threw 3 passes, 2 of which were dropped. 2nd series we come out pass the ball and then 5th offensive play of the game we run and Wimberly fumbles.

    No one on here is ever happy and will always second guess everything.



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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    The game could not have started out any worse offensively either. Dropped passes, fumble turnover, sack, blah blah. Can't win games if your offense is their best defense.


    Quote Originally Posted by AltHawk View Post
    Why would it? One bad game doesn't change a thing. Iowa will still be a darkhorse B1G championship contender, and Iowa State will be lucky to make the NIT.

    If you ask the basketball analysts outside the state of Iowa I think you would be surprised to hear their responses. Iowa was pegged as a preseason top 5 team by one ESPN analyst and is ranked in the vast, vast majority of preseason top 25 polls

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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    What did we have three of the first four passes were drops? Then there was a false-start followed by Wimberly's fumble. The offense was NOT ready to play. The defense and special teams were. The defense and special teams were trying to help us set a tone for the game and the offense peed down its leg.



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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamJGray View Post
    I get the fans want Mess gone, but we are now blaming him for Ecby dropping the first pass of the game?
    And that's the tip of the iceberg. I blame Messingham for frivolous moving violations, rush hour traffic, and the polio virus.



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    Re: How Mess takes us out of games in the 1st qtr

    A better question why aren't we running the f-ing ball, both the Tech and Texas games we had some success in diamond formation and some with Woody leading as fullback, the blue print was set with Kstate the previous week, we did not follow it at all.



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