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Thread: Redskins

  1. #166
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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    There you go with the casino Oneida Nation again. It is always the one that is quoted. Name some more.
    I did. The National Congress of American Indians. They represent at bunch of different tribes, and have been around for 60+ years.


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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    There you go with the casino Oneida Nation again. It is always the one that is quoted. Name some more.
    The survey doesn't say which Native Americans it surveyed, but this survey does show that a large percentage of native americans believe that the term is racist
    http://cips.csusb.edu/docs/PressRelease.pdf



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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomeborg View Post
    I·rish
    ˈīriSH/
    noun


    • 1.
      the Goidelic language that is the first official language of the Republic of Ireland.
    • 2.
      the people of Ireland; Irish people collectively.

    red·skin
    ˈredˌskin/
    noun dated offensive


    • an American Indian.

    notice a difference there?
    He didn't say "irish" was offensive, he said "fighting irish" could be offensive. Who's to say that that term isn't disparaging?


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  4. #169
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    Re: Redskins

    I just don't get it, I guess.

    We have a word here. It is a racial slur. The American Indians consider it a slur. The dictionary considers it a slur. Redskin is a slur. It is a dehumanizing epithet that has been used historically to belittle the indigenous peoples of America.

    Calling an American Indian a Redskin is the same as calling a black man a ******, yet one of those words, I'm sure, gets turned into a series of asterisks, while the other makes a white guy close to $400 million dollars a year.

    Chief is not a slur. Indian is not a slur. Brave was not used by the United States government as a substitute for actual tribe names in order for the BOIA to be able to apply treaties of one tribe across all tribes, allowing for the near extinction of the people who were on this continent before anyone else. Redskin is a slur.

    And do not equate this to Irish or Cowboy or Spartan. Simply using a people group as a mascot is not inherently offensive. Using a dehumanizing epithet, however, is.

    Having a team in Washington named the Redskins is only different from a team in Delaware named the Porch Monkeys in the fact that no one in their right mind would defend the Delaware Porch Monkeys. It's the same thing as having the New Hampshire Wet Backs or Southern California Lemon Heads. If any of those teams existed, there'd be no public outcry of "it's no big deal!" to let the Porch Monkeys keep their name.

    And this is not a new thing. Members of the AIM attempted, through reasoned requests and offers of assistance to get the Redskins to change their name in the 70's. They offered to help the organization come up with a name and branding identity that would not be offensive. They just wanted that word to no longer be used. The first organized protest against the name happened in 1988.

    Listen, folks, a young American Indian man is 50% more likely to grow up illiterate and in abject poverty than any other racial group in the United States. That includes undocumented or migrant workers. Someone born an American Indian is twice as likely to die of suicide than they are to die of heart disease, making them the only racial minority of which this is true. They are a generation away from their entire culture being extinct.

    Is it so hard to understand that these people are dehumanized enough? Does Dan Snyder really need your help, here? We can't say "yeah, American Indians, we didn't get it, but you've been telling us for a quarter century that Redskin isn't a cool word to use. We'll stop using it, we're sorry."

    Snyder walks around and tells everyone that the organization uses the term Redskin to honor the American Indian. To celebrate their strength and culture and nobility. And I don't believe he honestly wants to be offensive. If he honestly wants to honor the American Indian culture, then he should do it. Take these groups that have brought words and suit against him, and say "let's figure out how to celebrate your nobility in a way that doesn't make you feel hated."

    That's how you do this, not by fighting the very people you're trying to honor for the right to honor them in a way that is offensive.

    I mean, what's next, we carve the image of a man who refused to have his image captured for religious reasons into a mountain that was revered as holy?

    Oh... crap...


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  5. #170
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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Incyte View Post
    He didn't say "irish" was offensive, he said "fighting irish" could be offensive. Who's to say that that term isn't disparaging?
    The U.S. Patent and Trademark office would be a good start. If he wants to pay the fee and file a claim, more power to him.


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  6. #171
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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    There you go with the casino Oneida Nation again. It is always the one that is quoted. Name some more.
    The... casino Oneida Nation?

    Are you honestly this racist, or are you just trying to be shocking?



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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Janny View Post
    The U.S. Patent and Trademark office would be a good start. If he wants to pay the fee and file a claim, more power to him.
    He's too old. I would recommend an irish catholic who recently turned 18 file that petition.


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  8. #173
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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomeborg View Post
    I just don't get it, I guess.

    We have a word here. It is a racial slur. The American Indians consider it a slur. The dictionary considers it a slur. Redskin is a slur. It is a dehumanizing epithet that has been used historically to belittle the indigenous peoples of America.

    Calling an American Indian a Redskin is the same as calling a black man a ******, yet one of those words, I'm sure, gets turned into a series of asterisks, while the other makes a white guy close to $400 million dollars a year.

    Chief is not a slur. Indian is not a slur. Brave was not used by the United States government as a substitute for actual tribe names in order for the BOIA to be able to apply treaties of one tribe across all tribes, allowing for the near extinction of the people who were on this continent before anyone else. Redskin is a slur.

    And do not equate this to Irish or Cowboy or Spartan. Simply using a people group as a mascot is not inherently offensive. Using a dehumanizing epithet, however, is.

    Having a team in Washington named the Redskins is only different from a team in Delaware named the Porch Monkeys in the fact that no one in their right mind would defend the Delaware Porch Monkeys. It's the same thing as having the New Hampshire Wet Backs or Southern California Lemon Heads. If any of those teams existed, there'd be no public outcry of "it's no big deal!" to let the Porch Monkeys keep their name.

    And this is not a new thing. Members of the AIM attempted, through reasoned requests and offers of assistance to get the Redskins to change their name in the 70's. They offered to help the organization come up with a name and branding identity that would not be offensive. They just wanted that word to no longer be used. The first organized protest against the name happened in 1988.

    Listen, folks, a young American Indian man is 50% more likely to grow up illiterate and in abject poverty than any other racial group in the United States. That includes undocumented or migrant workers. Someone born an American Indian is twice as likely to die of suicide than they are to die of heart disease, making them the only racial minority of which this is true. They are a generation away from their entire culture being extinct.

    Is it so hard to understand that these people are dehumanized enough? Does Dan Snyder really need your help, here? We can't say "yeah, American Indians, we didn't get it, but you've been telling us for a quarter century that Redskin isn't a cool word to use. We'll stop using it, we're sorry."

    Snyder walks around and tells everyone that the organization uses the term Redskin to honor the American Indian. To celebrate their strength and culture and nobility. And I don't believe he honestly wants to be offensive. If he honestly wants to honor the American Indian culture, then he should do it. Take these groups that have brought words and suit against him, and say "let's figure out how to celebrate your nobility in a way that doesn't make you feel hated."

    That's how you do this, not by fighting the very people you're trying to honor for the right to honor them in a way that is offensive.

    I mean, what's next, we carve the image of a man who refused to have his image captured for religious reasons into a mountain that was revered as holy?

    Oh... crap...


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    The problem appears to be that some think the term is offensive and racist and others think that is a cool term and not racist at all. More signs of a divided and fragmented country.


    Let my Fred's Posse Ride: Georges, Naz, Hogue, Bryce, Nader, Monte, Matt, and McKay.

  9. #174
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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomeborg View Post
    I just don't get it, I guess.

    We have a word here. It is a racial slur. The American Indians consider it a slur. The dictionary considers it a slur. Redskin is a slur. It is a dehumanizing epithet that has been used historically to belittle the indigenous peoples of America.

    Calling an American Indian a Redskin is the same as calling a black man a ******, yet one of those words, I'm sure, gets turned into a series of asterisks, while the other makes a white guy close to $400 million dollars a year.

    Chief is not a slur. Indian is not a slur. Brave was not used by the United States government as a substitute for actual tribe names in order for the BOIA to be able to apply treaties of one tribe across all tribes, allowing for the near extinction of the people who were on this continent before anyone else. Redskin is a slur.

    And do not equate this to Irish or Cowboy or Spartan. Simply using a people group as a mascot is not inherently offensive. Using a dehumanizing epithet, however, is.

    Having a team in Washington named the Redskins is only different from a team in Delaware named the Porch Monkeys in the fact that no one in their right mind would defend the Delaware Porch Monkeys. It's the same thing as having the New Hampshire Wet Backs or Southern California Lemon Heads. If any of those teams existed, there'd be no public outcry of "it's no big deal!" to let the Porch Monkeys keep their name.

    And this is not a new thing. Members of the AIM attempted, through reasoned requests and offers of assistance to get the Redskins to change their name in the 70's. They offered to help the organization come up with a name and branding identity that would not be offensive. They just wanted that word to no longer be used. The first organized protest against the name happened in 1988.

    Listen, folks, a young American Indian man is 50% more likely to grow up illiterate and in abject poverty than any other racial group in the United States. That includes undocumented or migrant workers. Someone born an American Indian is twice as likely to die of suicide than they are to die of heart disease, making them the only racial minority of which this is true. They are a generation away from their entire culture being extinct.

    Is it so hard to understand that these people are dehumanized enough? Does Dan Snyder really need your help, here? We can't say "yeah, American Indians, we didn't get it, but you've been telling us for a quarter century that Redskin isn't a cool word to use. We'll stop using it, we're sorry."

    Snyder walks around and tells everyone that the organization uses the term Redskin to honor the American Indian. To celebrate their strength and culture and nobility. And I don't believe he honestly wants to be offensive. If he honestly wants to honor the American Indian culture, then he should do it. Take these groups that have brought words and suit against him, and say "let's figure out how to celebrate your nobility in a way that doesn't make you feel hated."

    That's how you do this, not by fighting the very people you're trying to honor for the right to honor them in a way that is offensive.

    I mean, what's next, we carve the image of a man who refused to have his image captured for religious reasons into a mountain that was revered as holy?

    Oh... crap...


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Crazy-Horse-Memorial-2.jpg 
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    People who claim that this is simply a new issue caused by our "PC society" or "white guilt" need to read this. It's not. There have been multiple Native American groups who have protested this issue over the last 40 years.


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    "Please bury me with all my stuff, because you know it's mine..."
    -Master Shake

    "Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood."
    -Lorem Ipsum

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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    The problem appears to be that some think the term is offensive and racist and others think that is a cool term and not racist at all. More signs of a divided and fragmented country.
    and your solution to the divided and fragmented country is to, what? Not listen to the American Indians who say "we are offended, and have been vocally so for 40+ years, by this word," and err on the side of "buck up, injun, it's all in fun, we love ya!"

    The road to not being divided on this issue is to change. the. god. damn. name.



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  11. #176
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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomeborg View Post
    The... casino Oneida Nation?

    Are you honestly this racist, or are you just trying to be shocking?
    He's running out of arguments. "But, but, Slippery Slope! failed. "It's only white guilt!" failed. Now it's on to Ad Hominem.


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  12. #177
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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomeborg View Post
    and your solution to the divided and fragmented country is to, what? Not listen to the American Indians who say "we are offended, and have been vocally so for 40+ years, by this word," and err on the side of "buck up, injun, it's all in fun, we love ya!"

    The road to not being divided on this issue is to change. the. god. damn. name.
    Some people will never change.


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  13. #178
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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Janny View Post
    He's running out of arguments. "But, but, Slippery Slope! failed. "It's only white guilt!" failed. Now it's on to Ad Hominem.
    I honestly almost reported him for that casino crack. It's offensive as heck.



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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    Some people will never change.
    Especially when you give them the right to not have to change. When you excuse their racist and offensive behavior, you allow them to feel normal about it. You keep fluffing that racist pillow for them, and they'll never want to get out of bed.



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    Re: Redskins

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    The problem appears to be that some think the term is offensive and racist and others think that is a cool term and not racist at all. More signs of a divided and fragmented country.
    But the two groups are not equal and shouldn't carry the same weight. The group that says the name is offensive and demeaning is mostly made up of a majority of native americans and some white people. The group that says it isn't is a majority of white people and a small percentage of native americans. Ultimately, the views of the native american community should carry a lot more weight since its a term referring to them.



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