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    Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    In Herman's last year at Rice they averaged 41 ppg, the year after he left they averaged 18. In 3 years here we averaged 22. The year before he got to Ohio State they averaged 28, since he has been there they averaged 41. Are those difference due to a different scheme or different play calling here or it just a matter of a difference in the talent level he was coaching vs. the talent level of the opponents. Since Messingham took over we have averaged 24 ppg. Does that mean that Herman was a success at 22 ppg and Messingham is a failure at 24.



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    This year it is more like 20.5. Is he getting worse with every passing (check that - running game) game?


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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by CyCy View Post
    In Herman's last year at Rice they averaged 41 ppg, the year after he left they averaged 18. In 3 years here we averaged 22. The year before he got to Ohio State they averaged 28, since he has been there they averaged 41. Are those difference due to a different scheme or different play calling here or it just a matter of a difference in the talent level he was coaching vs. the talent level of the opponents. Since Messingham took over we have averaged 24 ppg. Does that mean that Herman was a success at 22 ppg and Messingham is a failure at 24.
    Urban Meyer runs that offense at OSU, herman is his puppet. Also the Big ten sucks.



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    Herman is talented obviously. People use the talent to work with as an excuse (yes it is easier) but he averaged 44 ppg at Rice. I kinda doubt Rice is pulling 5* kids. The teams/competition is different but come on



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by CyCy View Post
    In Herman's last year at Rice they averaged 41 ppg, the year after he left they averaged 18. In 3 years here we averaged 22. The year before he got to Ohio State they averaged 28, since he has been there they averaged 41. Are those difference due to a different scheme or different play calling here or it just a matter of a difference in the talent level he was coaching vs. the talent level of the opponents. Since Messingham took over we have averaged 24 ppg. Does that mean that Herman was a success at 22 ppg and Messingham is a failure at 24.
    Neither Herman or Mess have been successful at Iowa State. I don't know where people are coming up with the idea that we were happy with what Herman did while he was here. He was just as bad as far as I'm concerned.

    What really has me worried though is that Rhoads is the only constant. I love Rhoads, but what is it that has led his teams to always have had horrible offenses, no matter who the OC is?

    We MUST establish some kind of running game IMO. But when you listen to Rhoads sometimes, he makes it sound as if we are going to use the pass to set up the run. You can't have much success coming at it from that approach IMO. You MUST have some kind of running game or you are toast IMO. And hopefully the running game doesn't have to consist of your QB getting the most carries and the most yards.



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    Oh good, another one...



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    By the fact that Urban hired Herman, I think it's safe to say Herman is probably decent at what he does. Also, Herman does call plays, it's just than Urban has veto power.



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by clonedude View Post
    Neither Herman or Mess have been successful at Iowa State. I don't know where people are coming up with the idea that we were happy with what Herman did while he was here. He was just as bad as far as I'm concerned.

    What really has me worried though is that Rhoads is the only constant. I love Rhoads, but what is it that has led his teams to always have had horrible offenses, no matter who the OC is?

    We MUST establish some kind of running game IMO. But when you listen to Rhoads sometimes, he makes it sound as if we are going to use the pass to set up the run. You can't have much success coming at it from that approach IMO. You MUST have some kind of running game or you are toast IMO. And hopefully the running game doesn't have to consist of your QB getting the most carries and the most yards.
    Idea is that with better talent his offense would be better. And it's clear we have better talent, especially at the skill positions.



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Luth4Cy View Post
    By the fact that Urban hired Herman, I think it's safe to say Herman is probably decent at what he does. Also, Herman does call plays, it's just than Urban has veto power.
    I assume that means that Rhoads has this "veto power" too? Can't believe that Messingham calls the entire game without discussion and, if need be, interruption from our head coach...



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    I assume that means that Rhoads has this "veto power" too? Can't believe that Messingham calls the entire game without discussion and, if need be, interruption from our head coach...
    That's not how Rhoads operates.



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    To run the Herman Offense you need a dynamic QB that can make people miss. In addition, this QB has to have a good arm, be durable and faster than the Linebackers across from him. This is a tall order. Arnaud had a good arm and was a tough runner, but he didn't have the speed to break big plays. The way he ran that offense was bruising and hard to watch because he took a beating. In McFarland's Offense I thought Arnaud looked great.

    In my opinion, Herman's offense puts way too much pressure on the QB and I really wish we would just get over it, go back to pro set or a throw first spread. Then force the opposing QB's to run "hit 'em coming off the bus" and win games by controlling the clock. The idea of having a run first zone read offense when we don't have Terrelle Pryor or Seneca for that matter is unwise.


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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    Messingham is working with more talent and a weeker Big 12. I would take Herman over Mess any day.
    Mess just is not an offensive mind. I almost believe he could give me the play book and I could do just as good a job as him. I at least know when I see Iowa put 6 guys at the line of scrimage and LBs up tight to NOT freaking run twice right into the strength of the Iowa D.



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    I would be curious what the average rushing and passing yards would be between the two. Looking at the number of 3 and outs would also be interesting.

    Anyone that says that talent level and competition level doesn't matter in points scored is crazy. Also, the OC is in charge of developing our QB's. That is part of my frustration. I think that the talent level that Sam and Grant came into ISU is much higher then previous QB's but they don't seem to improve much while they are here like other positions such as LB.



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypower69 View Post
    I would be curious what the average rushing and passing yards would be between the two. Looking at the number of 3 and outs would also be interesting.

    Anyone that says that talent level and competition level doesn't matter in points scored is crazy. Also, the OC is in charge of developing our QB's. That is part of my frustration. I think that the talent level that Sam and Grant came into ISU is much higher then previous QB's but they don't seem to improve much while they are here like other positions such as LB.
    Based on what? Sam has played a mere 5 games and Grant 0. I will give you Jantz and Barnett but he only had 1 year with them as OC



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    Re: Herman, Messingham and Numbers

    I thought messingham did a pretty darn good job last year. We had spotty QB play-- which spells nightmares for almost any offense-- but managed a bowl game. I certainly didn't think he was perfect, but I had hopes this year would be better with the better talent.

    Two games in, not so much.



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