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  1. #121
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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    Quote Originally Posted by Tre4ISU View Post
    This isn't even debatable. Kirksey is flowing immediately. Lowery will be blocked and there's a safety left.
    So what you are saying is you haven't actually watched the play at all.



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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    Quote Originally Posted by FootballinTexas View Post
    This play looks like 13 scat (zone right) because the left DE is unblocked and the slot left has man coverage. The OL is attempting to zone block right but, there is no push at the POC and everything is jumbled at the LOS. If Kirksey is the left DE then he is the read guy. If we send a guy to block him then it becomes "QB power" and not "read-option". In that case Sam should have kept the ball and CPR would have been fussing about him running the wrong play, not making the wrong read.
    My apologies, I though Kirksey was the unblocked linebacker past the line, and not the unblocked guy on the line.



  3. #123
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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    I just wanted to say I've enjoyed the past few posts. I much prefer this type of discussion with snap shots from the game and what went wrong instead of pitchforks and torches.



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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    Quote Originally Posted by Tre4ISU View Post
    There's the formation. 4-3 under. The Lber lined up as a 5 tech is obviously the read guy. There are two guys left over there, one of which will be blocked. If you go and watch that play it's pretty obvious Kirksey is flowing from the snap, albeit at a slow pace. That read is wrong. The bigger problem, though is that you are calling something with an unblocked player that you can't expose because there is no option.

    Attachment 22083
    This is a much better picture. The LBer looks like a 9-tech because we have a TE to that side on the LOS. This is not even a read formation. They should be running power left out of this formation! C and LG double the 1-tech up to the middle backer, LT blocks down on the 3-tech, TE releases through the 9-tech to the CB, wing either kicks or crashes the LBer (take him which ever way he wants to go), give the ball to Shontrelle to the power side and let him work. If you want to run read from this formation, you have bring the wing across the formation on the snap, and run "playside" zone to the right. The wing will kick OLB, our #3 will block most dangerous (either safety or double with our #2), RT and RG double the 3-tech up to the MLB, C zones the 1-tech, LG and LT double the 3-tech, TE zones the 9-tech, QB reads the unblocked RDE.

    That last zone play I just gave is very similar to what Kapernick ran at Nevada. So Klenakis should know how to coach that. Why we're not doing it is beyond me.



  5. #125
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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    Quote Originally Posted by FootballinTexas View Post
    This is a much better picture. The LBer looks like a 9-tech because we have a TE to that side on the LOS. This is not even a read formation. They should be running power left out of this formation! C and LG double the 1-tech up to the middle backer, LT blocks down on the 3-tech, TE releases through the 9-tech to the CB, wing either kicks or crashes the LBer (take him which ever way he wants to go), give the ball to Shontrelle to the power side and let him work. If you want to run read from this formation, you have bring the wing across the formation on the snap, and run "playside" zone to the right. The wing will kick OLB, our #3 will block most dangerous (either safety or double with our #2), RT and RG double the 3-tech up to the MLB, C zones the 1-tech, LG and LT double the 3-tech, TE zones the 9-tech, QB reads the unblocked RDE.

    That last zone play I just gave is very similar to what Kapernick ran at Nevada. So Klenakis should know how to coach that. Why we're not doing it is beyond me.
    Here's some video of the playside zone I mentioned above. Notice the wing coming across the formation and CK reading the playside DE. This is how he ran it at Nevada.

    Colin Kaepernick 49ers Highlights 2012 Read-Option - YouTube



  6. #126
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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    Quote Originally Posted by FootballinTexas View Post
    This is a much better picture. The LBer looks like a 9-tech because we have a TE to that side on the LOS. This is not even a read formation. They should be running power left out of this formation! C and LG double the 1-tech up to the middle backer, LT blocks down on the 3-tech, TE releases through the 9-tech to the CB, wing either kicks or crashes the LBer (take him which ever way he wants to go), give the ball to Shontrelle to the power side and let him work. If you want to run read from this formation, you have bring the wing across the formation on the snap, and run "playside" zone to the right. The wing will kick OLB, our #3 will block most dangerous (either safety or double with our #2), RT and RG double the 3-tech up to the MLB, C zones the 1-tech, LG and LT double the 3-tech, TE zones the 9-tech, QB reads the unblocked RDE.

    That last zone play I just gave is very similar to what Kapernick ran at Nevada. So Klenakis should know how to coach that. Why we're not doing it is beyond me.
    Well I would agree that it should have been run as power since they would have everyone to the safety blocked fairly easy. It wasn't though, which is weird. That had to have been a veer but since they had that front and crushed the middle there wasn't going to be anything there.

    Edit: Maybe not I guess. I'm still not sure how to diagnose what they are trying to do in the pistol as far as optioning.


    Last edited by Tre4ISU; 09-24-2013 at 08:58 PM.
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  7. #127
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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    Quote Originally Posted by Tre4ISU View Post
    Well I would agree that it should have been run as power since they would have everyone to the safety blocked fairly easy. It wasn't though, which is weird. That had to have been a veer but since they had that front and crushed the middle there wasn't going to be anything there.
    Enjoy.

    THE PISTOL OFFENSE: POWER RUNNING GAME(KLENAKIS) - YouTube



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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    Quote Originally Posted by FootballinTexas View Post
    This is a much better picture. The LBer looks like a 9-tech because we have a TE to that side on the LOS. This is not even a read formation. They should be running power left out of this formation! C and LG double the 1-tech up to the middle backer, LT blocks down on the 3-tech, TE releases through the 9-tech to the CB, wing either kicks or crashes the LBer (take him which ever way he wants to go), give the ball to Shontrelle to the power side and let him work. If you want to run read from this formation, you have bring the wing across the formation on the snap, and run "playside" zone to the right. The wing will kick OLB, our #3 will block most dangerous (either safety or double with our #2), RT and RG double the 3-tech up to the MLB, C zones the 1-tech, LG and LT double the 3-tech, TE zones the 9-tech, QB reads the unblocked RDE.

    That last zone play I just gave is very similar to what Kapernick ran at Nevada. So Klenakis should know how to coach that. Why we're not doing it is beyond me.
    Is it possible we are hanging on to things from Herman's offense and adding in the Ault Pistol, but they aren't mixing? Like this play for example. Are we blocking like we would from Herman's offense, but running out of the Pistol and it's causing issues like you stated above?



  9. #129
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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    polishing a turd


    The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come Ray. People will most definitely come.

  10. #130
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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    Quote Originally Posted by megamanxzero35 View Post
    Is it possible we are hanging on to things from Herman's offense and adding in the Ault Pistol, but they aren't mixing? Like this play for example. Are we blocking like we would from Herman's offense, but running out of the Pistol and it's causing issues like you stated above?
    There really shouldn't be any reason they can't mix. My blocking is that much different, I don't know. I don't remember Herman doing much with power concepts but he may have. Like FIT pointed out, that was set up for a pretty easy power run, but at the same time, the option concept from where they were did as well as you can hope with execution. You basically have the read man isolated like normal and you should just have a safety left.


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  11. #131
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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    Quote Originally Posted by megamanxzero35 View Post
    Is it possible we are hanging on to things from Herman's offense and adding in the Ault Pistol, but they aren't mixing? Like this play for example. Are we blocking like we would from Herman's offense, but running out of the Pistol and it's causing issues like you stated above?
    Thats what I'm thinking. Even if it's not a Herman hangover it's Mess' mess mixed in with the Pistol. That's exactly why I suggest the possibility of Klenakis taking over this offense if we are gonna be all in with this formation.



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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    Quote Originally Posted by FanatiClone View Post
    Thats what I'm thinking. Even if it's not a Herman hangover it's Mess' mess mixed in with the Pistol. That's exactly why I suggest the possibility of Klenakis taking over this offense if we are gonna be all in with this formation.
    I was pretty pumped for the pistol but if you aren't going to do anything but run option out of it, I don't see its use here. Don't get me wrong, it's not a worse formation. I guess I just thought we would see some more power concepts and some more things straight forward. In all honesty, I like the option much better from the standard shotgun because i feel like it creates more angles. I'm fairly certain this is a veer and I just have a hard time thinking the RB can be efficient in hitting that hole with the angle he has to take. I don't know. Maybe I'm just searching for more ways our offense sucks at this point. I just hate that there are so many teams making RO/veer/inverted veer with straight inside/outside zone work while we can't muster 100 yards out of our RBs. Then once those teams have that going they set fire to safeties at will.


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  13. #133
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    Re: Why SR has to be able to run vs. Tulsa, or a change could be made

    Quote Originally Posted by Tre4ISU View Post
    I was pretty pumped for the pistol but if you aren't going to do anything but run option out of it, I don't see its use here. Don't get me wrong, it's not a worse formation. I guess I just thought we would see some more power concepts and some more things straight forward. In all honesty, I like the option much better from the standard shotgun because i feel like it creates more angles. I'm fairly certain this is a veer and I just have a hard time thinking the RB can be efficient in hitting that hole with the angle he has to take. I don't know. Maybe I'm just searching for more ways our offense sucks at this point. I just hate that there are so many teams making RO/veer/inverted veer with straight inside/outside zone work while we can't muster 100 yards out of our RBs. Then once those teams have that going they set fire to safeties at will.
    I'm with you on that. Reading about Klenakis' description of how the Pistol was run at Nevada, and watching a couple of youtube tutorials by him, coach K talked a lot about power concepts and running north and south. That's why I have to believe, from what I've seen so far, that this current offense is not what Klenakis envisioned. It's almost like Mess has his own concepts and he is trying to integrate them into the pistol. I don't care what formation we use, but if it's gonna be the pistol, and we're gonna commit to it 100%, then let one of its co-creators run the damn show for god sake. It's a no brainier as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps CPR is not 100% committed to it and is just "trying it on" for size.?.



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