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Thread: Rebuilding

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    Rebuilding

    In b4 "tl;dr"

    Since last night, it seems a lot of Fanatics have gone out and said "so much for rebuilding this is year 5 and we are still playing like crap." And to them, I offer this thread:

    In my opinion, Rhoads had three options to rebuild this program the transfer, JUCO, or high school players. Rhoads, from the beginning, has chosen the high school players so he can mold them into his style. Yes, he has taken on a transfer or two, and added JUCOs to fill holes, but he hasnt banked on transfers or JUCOs to build a successful Iowa State program.

    His method of rebuilding was by far the most conservative style. It takes the longest to develop, but will also let him mold players the way he wants them. However, we need to look at how this method works out in a year-by-year basic.

    Year 1 Not gonna bring in your recruits. Hes going to bring in players that Chizik had lined up for Iowa State.

    Year 2 While hes had the chance to recruit some kids for 2 years, what does he tell players? We sucked three years before me but I won 7 games my first year?

    Year 3 Now hes really had a chance to recruit these kids, but he didnt make a bowl game the year prior. Not a great sell, even though hes had three years to recruit.

    Year 4 Now hes really gotten control of his recruiting. He beat the #2 team in the nation, can tell recruits he is pretty much the sole reason there is no more BCS after this season, and went to a bowl game.

    This offseason, he nabbed Lazard and another 4-star WR from South Florida. We also stole Campos, a 4 star lineman, from Mizzou.

    Year 5 HIS recruits are finally here players he has wanted to form a team around. But, these players are young. Very young. And his offensive coordinator sucks.

    Some may disagree, but I think this is the biggest rebuilding year in the Paul Rhoads era. Were young but have some promise. Our last recruiting class was probably the best in his era, and this upcoming one (2014) will be even better. So while some are saying we should be done with rebuilding already, take a step back and look at how Rhoads is rebuilding this team. It isnt an overnight turnaround like we basically saw from Hoiberg. It is a much more conservative, low risk, high reward form of rebuilding.

    Now, if we get to year 7 and were losing to UNI, Im gonna be ****** and probably never say Iowa State and rebuilding in the same sentence ever again.


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    Re: Rebuilding

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUCubswin View Post
    In b4 "tl;dr"Since last night, it seems a lot of Fanatics have gone out and said "so much for rebuilding this is year 5 and we are still playing like crap." And to them, I offer this thread: In my opinion, Rhoads had three options to rebuild this program the transfer, JUCO, or high school players. Rhoads, from the beginning, has chosen the high school players so he can mold them into his style. Yes, he has taken on a transfer or two, and added JUCOs to fill holes, but he hasnt banked on transfers or JUCOs to build a successful Iowa State program. His method of rebuilding was by far the most conservative style. It takes the longest to develop, but will also let him mold players the way he wants them. However, we need to look at how this method works out in a year-by-year basic. Year 1 Not gonna bring in your recruits. Hes going to bring in players that Chizik had lined up for Iowa State. Year 2 While hes had the chance to recruit some kids for 2 years, what does he tell players? We sucked three years before me but I won 7 games my first year? Year 3 Now hes really had a chance to recruit these kids, but he didnt make a bowl game the year prior. Not a great sell, even though hes had three years to recruit. Year 4 Now hes really gotten control of his recruiting. He beat the #2 team in the nation, can tell recruits he is pretty much the sole reason there is no more BCS after this season, and went to a bowl game. This offseason, he nabbed Lazard and another 4-star WR from South Florida. We also stole Campos, a 4 star lineman, from Mizzou. Year 5 HIS recruits are finally here players he has wanted to form a team around. But, these players are young. Very young. And his offensive coordinator sucks. Some may disagree, but I think this is the biggest rebuilding year in the Paul Rhoads era. Were young but have some promise. Our last recruiting class was probably the best in his era, and this upcoming one (2014) will be even better. So while some are saying we should be done with rebuilding already, take a step back and look at how Rhoads is rebuilding this team. It isnt an overnight turnaround like we basically saw from Hoiberg. It is a much more conservative, low risk, high reward form of rebuilding. Now, if we get to year 7 and were losing to UNI, Im gonna be ****** and probably never say Iowa State and rebuilding in the same sentence ever again.
    Different Sport, but Hoiberg never rebuilds, he reloads.


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    Re: Rebuilding

    Quote Originally Posted by IHavNoCyCash View Post
    Different Sport, but Hoiberg never rebuilds, he reloads.
    Yes, different sport, but Hoiberg had to rebuild in season 1 with all those transfers.

    But I would compare Fran's rebuilding of the Iowa program like Rhoads to Iowa States. Fran just turned the team around quicker because it's easier to recruit kids to play at Iowa than it is Iowa State.


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    Re: Rebuilding

    If we get to year 7 and we lose to UNI, I will officially call for Rhoads' head. He can't remain on the pedestal forever.


    Quote Originally Posted by hoiballin33 View Post
    Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like? You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that?

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    Re: Rebuilding

    Right now I'm calling for Messingham's head. Dude needed to be fired this offseason.


    Quote Originally Posted by hoiballin33 View Post
    Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like? You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that?

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    Re: Rebuilding

    By the end of Rhoads’ second year, I was convinced this would be a 7-year rebuilding project ... that is, it’d take that many years to expect 8-win seasons on any consistent basis.


    In the meantime, we’ve been able to grasp a few positives. Prior to Saturday, ISU had gotten a few unexpected wins, each team has been at least in contention for a bowl bid, and no truly bad losses (beyond margin of victory).



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    Re: Rebuilding

    I can agree with the OP. I started the 'why are we young in year 5' thread with the purpose of really trying to identify the recruiting misses early on...I probably failed at that purpose. I understand the obstacles CPR had his first few years.

    A real issue that I would love to hear the coaching staff be candid on (and one that you never seem to hear about) was the impact the conference realignment had on recruiting. We had two straight years in 2010 and 2011 were all signs truly pointed toward ISU not playing in a major, or at least as major, of a conference. I'm sure any and every single coach that recruited against us pounded this idea/myth over and over and over. I think it was a major roadblock that the program has just in the last year or so began to to overcome.

    It's impossible not to see and realize that recruiting as picked up pretty dramatically since the conference realignment nonsense came to an end.



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    Re: Rebuilding

    Quote Originally Posted by mustangcy View Post
    I can agree with the OP. I started the 'why are we young in year 5' thread with the purpose of really trying to identify the recruiting misses early on...I probably failed at that purpose. I understand the obstacles CPR had his first few years.

    A real issue that I would love to hear the coaching staff be candid on (and one that you never seem to hear about) was the impact the conference realignment had on recruiting. We had two straight years in 2010 and 2011 were all signs truly pointed toward ISU not playing in a major, or at least as major, of a conference. I'm sure any and every single coach that recruited against us pounded this idea/myth over and over and over. I think it was a major roadblock that the program has just in the last year or so began to to overcome.

    It's impossible not to see and realize that recruiting as picked up pretty dramatically since the conference realignment nonsense came to an end.


    Scout's final recruiting rankings for ISU:

    09 79th
    10 73rd
    11 69th
    12 76th
    13 64th

    So what you see is sort of a steady to slightly improving job in recruiting since CPR got here, if the Scout ranking is worth anything (and it probably isn't.) The bigger factor in 2013 improvement is probably the football building coming on line. The '12 class would have had to hear those realignment rumors throughout their recruitment process as juniors, and that is the second lowest ranking of CPR's time here, so there may be something to that, although it really isn't that far off from other years.



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    Re: Rebuilding

    Quote Originally Posted by IHavNoCyCash View Post
    Different Sport, but Hoiberg never rebuilds, he reloads.
    I wouldnt necessarily say that. The rebuilding just doesnt take whole seasons. Nov-Dec have been rebuilding periods the last couple years with all the new pieces.



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    Re: Rebuilding

    All this rebuilding talk is irrelevant; we were beat down by uni. So after the rebuilding is done we will finally be able to beat uni? This offense has no toughness and no amount of talent will fix it.



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    Re: Rebuilding

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUCubswin View Post
    In my opinion, Rhoads had three options to rebuild this program – the transfer, JUCO, or high school players. Rhoads, from the beginning, has chosen the high school players so he can mold them into his style. Yes, he has taken on a transfer or two, and added JUCO’s to fill holes, but he hasn’t banked on transfers or JUCO’s to build a successful Iowa State program.
    What is "his style"? I have no idea what style we're trying to play out there, no hint of an identity.



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    Re: Rebuilding

    Quote Originally Posted by alarson View Post
    I wouldnt necessarily say that. The rebuilding just doesnt take whole seasons. Nov-Dec have been rebuilding periods the last couple years with all the new pieces.
    but has the basketball team lost to a team like Texas A&M-CC or UNC Wilmington in the Hoiberg era? It equals that.

    UNI and Drake don't count.McD lost to NDSU so it's valid.


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    Re: Rebuilding

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUCubswin View Post
    In b4 "tl;dr"

    Since last night, it seems a lot of Fanatics have gone out and said "so much for rebuilding – this is year 5 and we are still playing like crap." And to them, I offer this thread:

    In my opinion, Rhoads had three options to rebuild this program – the transfer, JUCO, or high school players. Rhoads, from the beginning, has chosen the high school players so he can mold them into his style. Yes, he has taken on a transfer or two, and added JUCO’s to fill holes, but he hasn’t banked on transfers or JUCO’s to build a successful Iowa State program.

    His method of rebuilding was by far the most conservative style. It takes the longest to develop, but will also let him mold players the way he wants them. However, we need to look at how this method works out in a year-by-year basic.

    Year 1 – Not gonna bring in your recruits. He’s going to bring in players that Chizik had lined up for Iowa State.

    Year 2 – While he’s had the chance to recruit some kids for 2 years, what does he tell players? “We sucked three years before me but I won 7 games my first year?”

    Year 3 – Now he’s really had a chance to recruit these kids, but he didn’t make a bowl game the year prior. Not a great sell, even though he’s had three years to recruit.

    Year 4 – Now he’s really gotten control of his recruiting. He beat the #2 team in the nation, can tell recruits he is pretty much the sole reason there is no more BCS after this season, and went to a bowl game.

    This offseason, he nabbed Lazard and another 4-star WR from South Florida. We also stole Campos, a 4 star lineman, from Mizzou.

    Year 5 – HIS recruits are finally here – players he has wanted to form a team around. But, these players are young. Very young. And his offensive coordinator sucks.

    Some may disagree, but I think this is the biggest rebuilding year in the Paul Rhoads era. We’re young but have some promise. Our last recruiting class was probably the best in his era, and this upcoming one (2014) will be even better. So while some are saying we should be done with rebuilding already, take a step back and look at how Rhoads is rebuilding this team. It isn’t an overnight turnaround like we basically saw from Hoiberg. It is a much more conservative, low risk, high reward form of rebuilding.

    Now, if we get to year 7 and we’re losing to UNI, I’m gonna be ****** and probably never say Iowa State and rebuilding in the same sentence ever again.
    We are not that young. That is just an excuse, particularly for the 20 point offense. All were redshirt freshmen or better. Luke Knott was the newbie. These people have been in the S&C program awhile. If you cannot get a better oline, Lazzard will be relegated to catching three yard passes.


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    Re: Rebuilding

    Quote Originally Posted by IHavNoCyCash View Post
    but has the basketball team lost to a team like Texas A&M-CC or UNC Wilmington in the Hoiberg era? It equals that.

    UNI and Drake don't count.McD lost to NDSU so it's valid.
    I would say the Drake loss is pretty similar. Drake hasn't been a good basketball team for a long time. It didn't set back the entire program like last night, but felt pretty similar.



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    Re: Rebuilding

    Quote Originally Posted by istater7 View Post
    I would say the Drake loss is pretty similar. Drake hasn't been a good basketball team for a long time. It didn't set back the entire program like last night, but felt pretty similar.
    Drake loss is similar to losing to Tulsa as far as conference goes. Drake is in a decent conference and had some good players (Rice, Simons). Not too long ago they won the MVC with Keno.

    Also, this was year 1 of the transfer era, the football loss was in year 5 of the Rhoads era. big difference.


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