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  1. #61
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bader View Post
    I have far too much respect for Martin and his writing to believe he would just deus ex machina his life's work like that.

    Also, did you HEAR him whistle? That alone should get snaggletooth a throne
    he is the best whistler in the land, it's true.



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  2. #62
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman38 View Post
    I think this is a big misconception. I could be wrong but I think Martin only kills off characters who's stories were really about to wind down anyways.

    If Rob didn't die where else could his story have gone? He was rolling to Kings Landing so it wouldn't make sense if the same armies he's been routing all of a sudden stopped him. IMO Rob taking the throne would kill a lot of the story, you need someone you hate on the throne for it to work. So Rob could have gotten there and been defeated, but Martin's already played out a similar story line with Stannis.

    And with Rob dead Catelyn was an expendable character.
    GRRM writes his stories the way he does because he likes to consume fiction that is unpredictable, and therefore wants to produce it.

    He's said that he decided to kill Rob and Cat, not because of any winding down of their story, or expendability of their characters or archs, but because it would be logical for a fantasy story to use either the son or the grieving wife to take the place of their dead father/husband as the protagonist.

    Which is why I think Jon isn't long for this world.

    And I don't know how you can say that Jon and Cat's stories were winding down or expendable. At the time of their death, both of them were on the cusp of what could have been some extremely important and awesome crap. I don't consider letting his uncle get married to a Fray to secure the Twins and soldiers in order to take freakin' Casterly Rock to be on the down-swing. He was setting up for the most impressive campaign of his war when he died.....

    Now, it is true that GRRM has only killed one viewpoint character in the series that's stayed dead (and there's some fan theories that Ned is still under the Red Keep, but they're pretty insane). And, we're in full White-Walkers-Are-Marching and Dragons-Are-Eating-Toddlers territory of the fantasy portions of these books, so there's a bit of hope there.

    This is why I think Jon is dead, but not staying that way. I think that Jon is truly dead, Millisandre sees the truth (finally) that Jon is Azor Ahai, and the world is doomed without him, and does something pretty drastic. With King's blood. Specifically, this is the reason we've got Aegon Targaryen back in the stories.....



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  3. #63
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Angie View Post
    I agree. I understand that it's going somewhere, and they're very interesting characters, but the whole Greyjoy line has me a little bored. I'm sure there's going to be some massive struggle with Euron and... someone, but it sort of just seems to be complicating the story at this point.
    How could you be bored with Victarion Greyjoy?!?!?!

    His "let the gods decide who gets the sacrifice moment" was the ultimate badass drop-the-mic moment in that book.

    I think he's part of Dany's Small Council that finally gets her war off the ground. Him, Tyrion, Mormont, and Bariston advising her, maybe Dany won't make every decision-of-state like she was writing a live journal entry about how dreamy Darryo is.

    But to be fair, I feel that way about Aegon Targaryan's introduction to the story. I sort of kind of hate him, just for being so late to the party. And because I think a character or seven I actually love are going to die, meaning that this late-comer that I haven't been obsessing over for nearly twenty years is going to be more important to the conclusion than, say, Jamie (who I will never admit is my favorite non-Greyjoy, simply because I don't want GRRM to hear me...)


    Last edited by Gnomeborg; 06-05-2013 at 10:31 AM.

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  4. #64
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomeborg View Post
    How could you be bored with Victarion Greyjoy?!?!?!

    His "let the gods decide who gets the sacrifice moment" was the ultimate badass drop-the-mic moment in that book.

    I think he's part of Dany's Small Council that finally gets her war off the ground. Him, Tyrion, Mormont, and Bariston advising her, maybe Dany won't make every decision-of-state like she was writing a live journal entry about how dreamy Darryo is.
    Victarion is interesting, and there have been some great scenes, but it just seems like his and Asha's and Theon's chapters are making the books longer at this point. They're not going much of anywhere that seems crucial to the storyline.

    I do think that it would make sense for Victarion to be on Dany's small council, I'm cool with that - but is all of that buildup over the last five books worth that payoff? I mean, I get the part of having Theon in the first book so he could betray Rob, I get that - but why in the world do we need Aeron chapters? He's been so tangential to the story up to this point, and I just don't see how all of these side stories are going to have this enormous payoff?

    I think Selmy's going to get killed, for some reason.


    M 7/09

  5. #65
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Angie View Post
    Victarion is interesting, and there have been some great scenes, but it just seems like his and Asha's and Theon's chapters are making the books longer at this point. They're not going much of anywhere that seems crucial to the storyline.

    I do think that it would make sense for Victarion to be on Dany's small council, I'm cool with that - but is all of that buildup over the last five books worth that payoff? I mean, I get the part of having Theon in the first book so he could betray Rob, I get that - but why in the world do we need Aeron chapters? He's been so tangential to the story up to this point, and I just don't see how all of these side stories are going to have this enormous payoff?

    I think Selmy's going to get killed, for some reason.
    I think Jorah's more likely, and I honestly hope it comes early in the next book. Not because I don't like Jorah, but because I think seeing Jorah's dead body may be enough to snap Dany out of the stupid she's been living in for the last year or so in the books.

    I also hope that she never has a chance to reconcile with him, and feels the pain of that mistake for the rest of her life.



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  6. #66
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    I don't think you have too much to worry about with Daario. Dany will be forced to turn him aside for political reasons before she invades Westeros. Probably will fall in battle.

    There is so much going on that I need to re read Feast and Dance with Dragons.


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  7. #67
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomeborg View Post
    And I don't know how you can say that Jon and Cat's stories were winding down or expendable. At the time of their death, both of them were on the cusp of what could have been some extremely important and awesome crap. I don't consider letting his uncle get married to a Fray to secure the Twins and soldiers in order to take freakin' Casterly Rock to be on the down-swing. He was setting up for the most impressive campaign of his war when he died.....
    Since this is the book thread... he was actually marching north to retake the north from the Ironborn. They'd just set up his awesome battle plan to take Moat Cailin (?) back from them and reopen the north.



  8. #68
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatllDoCy View Post
    I don't think you have too much to worry about with Daario. Dany will be forced to turn him aside for political reasons before she invades Westeros. Probably will fall in battle.

    There is so much going on that I need to re read Feast and Dance with Dragons.
    She's already proven she wont set him aside for Westeros. She turned away Quentyn Martell because she was so drippy for Darrio.

    "Dear Diary

    Westeros just got handed to me on a silver platter, and all I had to do was marry this one guy. But he was, like, a little pudgy and wasn't, like, you know, dangerous at all. He was gross, lol!

    Darrio's so dreamy.

    Hugs and Kisses
    Dany"



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  9. #69
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by CloneIce View Post
    Since this is the book thread... he was actually marching north to retake the north from the Ironborn. They'd just set up his awesome battle plan to take Moat Cailin (?) back from them and reopen the north.
    That's right. Man, it may be time for a book reread. And since today is the first day of unemployment, I can actually pull that off.



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  10. #70
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Angie View Post
    Victarion is interesting, and there have been some great scenes, but it just seems like his and Asha's and Theon's chapters are making the books longer at this point. They're not going much of anywhere that seems crucial to the storyline.

    I do think that it would make sense for Victarion to be on Dany's small council, I'm cool with that - but is all of that buildup over the last five books worth that payoff? I mean, I get the part of having Theon in the first book so he could betray Rob, I get that - but why in the world do we need Aeron chapters? He's been so tangential to the story up to this point, and I just don't see how all of these side stories are going to have this enormous payoff?

    I think Selmy's going to get killed, for some reason.
    Victarion's going to die I think. His purpose was to bring Dany her Navy which she will use to head to Westeros. And to blow the horn.... I don't know what effect it will have, but I don't think it will end well for him.

    But I loved his two chapers in ADWD, getting mad at the monkeys, throwing people overboard, etc.



  11. #71
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by CloneIce View Post
    Victarion's going to die I think. His purpose was to bring Dany her Navy which she will use to head to Westeros. And to blow the horn.... I don't know what effect it will have, but I don't think it will end well for him.

    But I loved his two chapers in ADWD, getting mad at the monkeys, throwing people overboard, etc.
    His chapters made me so happy.

    This is why I'm sure you're right about him not surviving. I just hope he does.



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  12. #72
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomeborg View Post
    GRRM writes his stories the way he does because he likes to consume fiction that is unpredictable, and therefore wants to produce it.

    He's said that he decided to kill Rob and Cat, not because of any winding down of their story, or expendability of their characters or archs, but because it would be logical for a fantasy story to use either the son or the grieving wife to take the place of their dead father/husband as the protagonist.

    Which is why I think Jon isn't long for this world.

    And I don't know how you can say that Jon and Cat's stories were winding down or expendable. At the time of their death, both of them were on the cusp of what could have been some extremely important and awesome crap. I don't consider letting his uncle get married to a Fray to secure the Twins and soldiers in order to take freakin' Casterly Rock to be on the down-swing. He was setting up for the most impressive campaign of his war when he died.....
    Jon dying would kill my theory, I think the bastard retaking Winterfell story line would be pretty awesome.

    But this is kind of my point, Rob was on a roll and I don't see how anyone could have credibly stopped him from at least reaching King's Landing. But where could the story possibly go from there?


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  13. #73
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomeborg View Post
    His chapters made me so happy.

    This is why I'm sure you're right about him not surviving. I just hope he does.
    I feel like we are going to see quite a few minor POV characters dying. Or else he will just stop writing their POVs.

    On a tangent, but I loved almost everything written in ADWD (though Dany's, Jon's, and Tyrion's arc should have each had about 2 chapters edited out of them). The one thing that kept it from being a great book... it was missing its ending! It was building up to great climaxes in the North and Meereen but they will be in the next book instead. TWOW should have a ton of action as so many climaxes built up in both 4 and 5 (Brienne's, Theons, Johns, Stannis, Dany, Davos, Cersei) have been pushed to 6.



  14. #74
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomeborg View Post
    She's already proven she wont set him aside for Westeros. She turned away Quentyn Martell because she was so drippy for Darrio.

    "Dear Diary

    Westeros just got handed to me on a silver platter, and all I had to do was marry this one guy. But he was, like, a little pudgy and wasn't, like, you know, dangerous at all. He was gross, lol!

    Darrio's so dreamy.

    Hugs and Kisses
    Dany"
    Someone will be dreamier. Namely, her cousin Jon Snow reborn as Azor Ahai.


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  15. #75
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    Re: Games of Thrones Book Thread (With Spoilers)

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatllDoCy View Post
    Someone will be dreamier. Namely, her cousin Jon Snow reborn as Azor Ahai.
    I sure hope so. When Darrio dies, I will rip that page out of the book it happened in, frame it, and replace my diploma on my wall.



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