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  1. #1
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    End of Game Woes

    Is there something we need to change at the end of games? Or is it just awful luck?

    All these last second shots we allow the shooter to square up and set their feet, that is a recipe for failure.

    I would have like to seen more pressure on Craft at the end of the game, instead of just letting him dribble off 29 seconds. Make them pass the ball around the key some, make them work for it, don't just give them a freebie. Maybe they get an open look with a few more seconds on the clock for us to draw up a play, but at least we made them work. Make Craft take a shot moving to his left or right, that is so much harder than a feet set squared up shot.

    I love Hoiberg as much as anyone, so not ripping him. But just wondering what we can change here.



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    Re: End of Game Woes

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyBuddy View Post
    Is there something we need to change at the end of games? Or is it just awful luck?
    Both.



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    Re: End of Game Woes

    Should Tinsley have tried to pass it or shot it instead of going for a crazy coast to coast sprint?



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    Re: End of Game Woes

    A little bit of both.

    We did a good job at the end of the KU game in Ames. I wouldn't have changed a thing.

    The KU bank shot was terrible luck. He was guarded for god's sake.

    Yesterday too.

    I am sure that no one is more sick about the results than Hoiberg. And I am sure no one will work harder in the off season to try and fix anything he can. watching Hoiberg over these past 3 years, the guy hates to lose.



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    Re: End of Game Woes

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyBuddy View Post
    Is there something we need to change at the end of games? Or is it just awful luck?

    All these last second shots we allow the shooter to square up and set their feet, that is a recipe for failure.

    I would have like to seen more pressure on Craft at the end of the game, instead of just letting him dribble off 29 seconds. Make them pass the ball around the key some, make them work for it, don't just give them a freebie. Maybe they get an open look with a few more seconds on the clock for us to draw up a play, but at least we made them work. Make Craft take a shot moving to his left or right, that is so much harder than a feet set squared up shot.

    I love Hoiberg as much as anyone, so not ripping him. But just wondering what we can change here.

    You're thinking about this too much.

    This was only the third year of Fred's tenure. He was scrambling for players each of the first two years.

    Fred has always said that he just wants to get the best players that he can, and he will adjust his coaching to their talent. This year we had a team that was very skilled offensively. But they were neither long enough nor physical enough across the board to be a dynamic defensive team.

    This year's team was also about 6 stops and rebounds from being a top 3 seed in a region. Perspective is key.

    I know there are people that think that Fred will never ever coach defense. But, believe it or not, his defensive schemes are good to great. Now he has to bring in the players to execute what he wants on that end of the court.

    Give it time. 3 years has been remarkable. Now it is time for him to reap the rewards of the work that the 6 seniors and last year's guys did on the recruiting trail.



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    Re: End of Game Woes

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyBuddy View Post
    Is there something we need to change at the end of games? Or is it just awful luck?

    All these last second shots we allow the shooter to square up and set their feet, that is a recipe for failure.

    I would have like to seen more pressure on Craft at the end of the game, instead of just letting him dribble off 29 seconds. Make them pass the ball around the key some, make them work for it, don't just give them a freebie. Maybe they get an open look with a few more seconds on the clock for us to draw up a play, but at least we made them work. Make Craft take a shot moving to his left or right, that is so much harder than a feet set squared up shot.

    I love Hoiberg as much as anyone, so not ripping him. But just wondering what we can change here.
    They played the percentages making him make a deep shot rather than letting him drive. The kid demonstrated the whole game that he could drive and make tough shots and get to the foul line. He was shooting 30% on the season from 3 and 26% in conference play. It was smart to make him take the 3. He said that he felt zero pressure because it was tied and if he missed it was overtime. If ISU got just one of the missed calls in the last two minutes he is possibly taking that shot from behind and it might have been a lot different.


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    Re: End of Game Woes

    I'm not sure making changes will do us any good, considering the season is over.



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    Re: End of Game Woes

    I'm guessing that is a question that Fred is asking himself.

    One thing that I've pondered is if we should run a trap at the ball handler with about 10 seconds left on the clock. The risk is that if he passes out of the trap or splits it then you have a defender out of position, on the positive side if the trap is effective you can make it very difficult for them to get a quality shot off or you might create a turnover.

    There are no easy answers, but it is extremely demoralizing how many times teams have nailed critical shots at the end of halves and games.

    There is no doubt that we have been extremely unlucky as well. If you look at the types of shots and percentage probabilities that those types of shots will fall. Is staggering that virtually everyone has been able to pull them off regardless of whether they were defended or not.



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    Re: End of Game Woes

    Yesterday was awful luck. Sure you could argue we should have put more pressure on him. Craft has only shot 30% from 3 this year and struggled at the end of the game at the line. All signs were pointing to his shot outside of 12 feet being shaky. Niang was playing for the drive which IMO was the right call.

    I wish Bubu would have stayed or switched back on him, I think that was the biggest mistake, but what's done is done. Still loved this team, and can't wait to see what the future holds.

    On another note, I have gained a lot of respect for Matta. What a class act, and as much as I hate Craft for that shot, he is a damn good player. I have no ill feeling towards them. If trends continue, they may be the national champs.



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    Re: End of Game Woes

    Hell I was willing to give Kraft the 3 point shot all game and play off him to prevent his drive.

    The only thing I think we could have done different at the end (and it is 2nd guessing now) is maybe George go out on him but take away him going to the right and force him to the left (middle of the lane) where there were others to help.

    But that is just 2nd guessing knowing the outcome. Not knowing the outcome I will let Kraft shoot that 3 all day.


    Last edited by isufbcurt; 03-25-2013 at 10:51 AM.

  11. #11
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    Re: End of Game Woes

    While its hip to say "you make your own luck", our 5 last second losses were all scenarios where the odds were heavily in our favor (opponents 3 pt shots and charge calls).
    The aggregate odds of all of them going
    against us must be in the 50:1 range.
    Yeah, that's a string of bad luck.



  12. #12
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    Re: End of Game Woes

    I have a hard time finding fault with yesterday's defense at the end of the game. If someone were to tell you with 20 seconds remaining that the final play of the game was going to be a Craft three-point attempt with Niang's hand in his face, you'd probably take it. Why? Because that means they didn't drive and dish, didn't drive and draw a foul, settled for what is by definition a lower percentage shot regardless of the shooter, and settled for that shot with a low-percentage shooter taking said shot. Like Babb said, that's what we wanted in that situation. This time, it didn't work. So I have no issues with that.

    But there's no question earlier in the season we got burned too many times in these situations to call it a coincidence. Time and time again, when a team needed a big shot against us, they got it. And too often, they were open.

    A co-worker raised a good question this morning. Should we have fouled them yesterday with say, 15 seconds remaining? So that we have the last shot? We've debated that endlessly when we've been up 2 or 3, but never faced that situation in a tie game.

    But again, I have no issues with our defense yesterday in that final sequence.



  13. #13
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    Re: End of Game Woes

    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyBuddy View Post
    Is there something we need to change at the end of games? Or is it just awful luck?

    All these last second shots we allow the shooter to square up and set their feet, that is a recipe for failure.

    I would have like to seen more pressure on Craft at the end of the game, instead of just letting him dribble off 29 seconds. Make them pass the ball around the key some, make them work for it, don't just give them a freebie. Maybe they get an open look with a few more seconds on the clock for us to draw up a play, but at least we made them work. Make Craft take a shot moving to his left or right, that is so much harder than a feet set squared up shot.

    I love Hoiberg as much as anyone, so not ripping him. But just wondering what we can change here.
    Craft is a terrible jump shooter, especially from 3. We wanted him to take that shot instead of penetrating and getting to the lane.

    It was a lucky shot, unfortunately, we have had about 4 or 5 "luck" shots go against us.



  14. #14
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    Re: End of Game Woes

    I think it was the good luck we have had recently just bouncing back a little...yeah the refs were atrocious, but think back to recent memories of the JVB "buzzer beater", Royce White beating KSU with a last second jumper, Scotty C nailing the long 3 to beat Okie State...I think we just had good luck in those scenarios in 2011-2012. 2012-2013 they just didn't work in our favor as well. Some seasons you just feel like your team will pull it off late, others you want your team to have a cushion and not worry about leaving the other teams with late game heroic possibilities. I think this year we had a better team than last but also felt they needed to blow out people/build a significant lead. Last year Royce and Scotty would just have the ability to "will" us to victory late where this season's team was more of a statistically better team where unfortunately statistics didn't help us in the late game anomalies.


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  15. #15
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    Re: End of Game Woes

    yes, secure the rebound so we get the last shot instead of them...



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