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    The Stats Explain the Standings

    2012-13 Big 12 Men's Basketball CONFERENCE BASKETBALL STATISTICS (Through March 3) (Conference games only)

    Scoring Offense ## Team G W-L Pts Avg/G
    --------------------------------------------
    1.Iowa State.......... 16 9-7 1246 77.9
    2.Oklahoma............ 16 10-6 1174 73.4
    3.Oklahoma State...... 16 12-4 1172 73.2
    4.Kansas.............. 16 13-3 1167 72.9
    5.Baylor.............. 16 8-8 1118 69.9
    6.Kansas State........ 16 13-3 1112 69.5
    7.Texas............... 16 5-11 1057 66.1
    8.West Virginia....... 16 6-10 1009 63.1
    9.Texas Tech.......... 16 3-13 940 58.8
    10.TCU................. 16 1-15 821 51.3

    Scoring Defense ## Team G Pts Avg/G
    --------------------------------------
    1.Kansas State........ 16 1003 62.7
    2.Kansas.............. 16 1007 62.9
    3.Oklahoma State...... 16 1035 64.7
    4.Baylor.............. 16 1052 65.8
    5.West Virginia....... 16 1058 66.1
    6.TCU................. 16 1077 67.3
    7.Oklahoma............ 16 1103 68.9
    8.Texas............... 16 1140 71.2
    9.Texas Tech.......... 16 1166 72.9
    10.Iowa State.......... 16 1175 73.4

    Scoring Margin
    ## Team G OFF DEF Margin
    ----------------------------------------------
    1.Kansas.............. 16 72.9 62.9 +10.0
    2.Oklahoma State...... 16 73.2 64.7 +8.6
    3.Kansas State........ 16 69.5 62.7 +6.8
    4.Oklahoma............ 16 73.4 68.9 +4.4
    5.Iowa State.......... 16 77.9 73.4 +4.4
    6.Baylor.............. 16 69.9 65.8 +4.1
    7.West Virginia....... 16 63.1 66.1 -3.1
    8.Texas............... 16 66.1 71.2 -5.2
    9.Texas Tech.......... 16 58.8 72.9 -14.1
    10.TCU................. 16 51.3 67.3 -16.0


    Last edited by iowa_wildcat; 03-03-2013 at 07:04 AM. Reason: Formatting for Idiots

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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    hmmmm kinda sums it up there.


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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    if "iowa state opponent" was an actual team, it would be 2nd in conference scoring



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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    Yep, it's been clear that Iowa State is a much better offensive team than defensive team. Part of it is pace of play but I do feel like CFH has made the conscious decision through playing time and game plans to sacrifice defense at times to try to outscore people. It certainly depends on what type of players you have but it will be interesting to see how Fred evolves as a coach in the future.

    One interesting thing is that Iowa State is -23 in overtimes. That's a 1.4 pt/game difference right there.



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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    The stats do sum up the idea that "score more to win" philosophy, but then when our scoring isn't on, opens up the other team to win if our defense doesn't ratchet up to make up the deficit.



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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    Im not saying we need to go all Wisconsin everybody, but this just shows that defense is a little more important than offense. I love the "score more than you" method. Its exciting. But many of our losses this year show we cant close games, and that comes back to defense.


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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by cmjh10 View Post
    Im not saying we need to go all Wisconsin everybody, but this just shows that defense is a little more important than offense. I love the "score more than you" method. Its exciting. But many of our losses this year show we cant close games, and that comes back to defense.
    There has to be a happy medium. Hopefully some of our defensive woes will be fixed with recruiting (more size). But some of it has to do with Fred's coaching/philosophy. If he emphasizes defense more, I'm sure we can improve next year.



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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    So is this a trend of Hoiberg's time at ISU or just reflective of this roster?



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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    When you adjust for possessions, KSU is actually the 2nd best team in the B12 offensively. 4th or 5th defensively. They just have a methodical style of play.



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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    So is this a trend of Hoiberg's time at ISU or just reflective of this roster?
    I'm thinking roster because last years defense wasn't nearly as bad as this years. Hopefully Georges gets a little stronger, works on his defense and Amardi can come in and add some defensive depth as well.



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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    I don't think in any sport you can out score bad defense. It just applies more pressure to your offense and makes it harder to keep momentum.


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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    So is this a trend of Hoiberg's time at ISU or just reflective of this roster?
    It's still up in the air. Interior players are more important to a team defensively, and there hasn't been a year under Hoiberg without a Vanderbeken and two freshman, Royce trying to stay out of foul trouble, or our undersized guys this year. Some of it is coaching decisions too, though, although I don't think anybody blames Hoiberg for playing Niang and Ejim over Booker.

    Hoiberg has an offensively-minded philosophy, and I'm sure he can win with it. I'm also sure he's aware that his teams need to improve defensively if they're ever going to win a B12 title. I don't think there is that mentality of consistent defensive effort instilled in this team. I have no idea how you do that as a coach, though.

    A problem I'm starting to see with the staff is their ability to develop big guys. I'm not sure either Booker or Gibson has improved much since they've gotten here, and if they had improved more, I think they could've provided a lift defensively.



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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Some of it is coaching decisions too, though, although I don't think anybody blames Hoiberg for playing Niang and Ejim over Booker.
    To me, the bigger question is whether Clyburn should play the 4 when Niang or Ejim are on the bench. It's probably one of ISU's best offensive line-ups but also weaker defensively. I also wonder how many fouls Niang and Ejim pick up when they're the only big on the floor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    A problem I'm starting to see with the staff is their ability to develop big guys. I'm not sure either Booker or Gibson has improved much since they've gotten here, and if they had improved more, I think they could've provided a lift defensively.
    Yeah, these two guys certainly haven't progressed as I hoped. It's interesting how Fred talks a lot about giving players confidence, but these two guys have such a wide variation in their minutes from game to game. There's times I think the team would have been better off if a more concerted effort was made to make sure these guys got at least a few minutes every game. But you've got to earn your minutes too.

    Oh well, every team has flaws and this team still remains a very exciting team to watch.



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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    I think the problem lies in how we "Scout" a team. Ever notice that a player who averages 7-9 points a game, more than likely because he ISNT the main offensive weapon on the team, and doesn't take many shots. We decide to give them the "free pass" on Defense to scheme against their better scorer's. That guy always has a career night against us...we are too slow to realize, hey that guy we are ignoring in our defensive pressure has just blazed us for 12 in the first half. Then when we make the adjustment, the opposing team goes back to there bread and butter and now 2-3 players are scoring at will.

    We need to change the way we Scheme defense......then play it.


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    Re: The Stats Explain the Standings

    One thing I have noticed consistently is how we double down when the ball goes into the post. The ball gets kicked out and we aren't able to recover, leaving an open look or drive. My guess is this is because we lack one-on-one post defenders. Love Melvin's effort but his lack of size makes it difficult.

    So different personnel might lead to a different defensive strategy?



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