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    (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    Comparing NFL and high school 40-yard dash times: A horrifying revelation - SBNation.com

    157 of the 203 players are as fast or slower than they were in high school.



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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    Much of the disparity seems to be linemen. These guys likely put on a lot of weight when they were in college and got slower, especially the O-linemen. Having said that, I don't know how you can ever trust highschool times since you don't really know where the listed time came from. It looks like the players who got faster are wr, rb, cb, s.



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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhoadhoused View Post
    Comparing NFL and high school 40-yard dash times: A horrifying revelation - SBNation.com

    157 of the 203 players are as fast or slower than they were in high school.
    Unsurprisingly, the world's slowest football conference has set the gold standard for slowing its players down. Big Ten attendees at the NFL Combine were, on average, 0.18 seconds slower than they had been in high school.
    All but three of the 22 players the Big Ten sent to the NFL Combine were as slow or slower now than they were when they entered college. When hypothetically reached for comment, conference commissioner Jim Delany probably explained that the legends and leaders the league sent to the combine were simply weighed down with the additional brain matter they had cultivated while at Big Ten institutions.



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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    NFL Events: Combine Top Performers

    Not one Big10 player in the top 15. Hmmmm


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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by isutrevman View Post
    Much of the disparity seems to be linemen. These guys likely put on a lot of weight when they were in college and got slower, especially the O-linemen. Having said that, I don't know how you can ever trust highschool times since you don't really know where the listed time came from. It looks like the players who got faster are wr, rb, cb, s.

    I'm going to have to politely disagree with you here. There seemed to be just as many skill position guys whose times got slower from HS to the NFL combine. The disparity has everything to do with self reporting the specs. When my son set up his profile on Rivals, they asked for his three best 40 times, and who timed his runs. They asked similar questions of his strength and lifting abilities. Everything was self reported. I know that nothing was verified because his profile was up within hours after entering the data. After his junior season my son, amongst others playing the same position, started to pop up in various publications from within the state. I got to know who his peers/competitors were in the big state of Texas. We would run into these kids at tournaments and camps. It quickly became evident, the fudging these kids did in regards to their specs on the recruiting websites. One kid, who is highly rated at his position, added 35 pounds to his actual weight. 35 POUNDS!!! He also took the liberty and trimmed his 40 time by .25+ seconds. I saw him run at three camps and he was never within .27 seconds of his self reported time. (I wonder if this had anything to do with his high Rivals and ESPN rating, cuz frankly he wasn't all that.) I witnessed this over and over. Usually a kid was within 10-15 pounds of his true weight, however, the 40 is where the majority of the discrepancy became evident. Honestly, it was not uncommon for kids to cut anywhere from .25 to even .35 seconds from their 40 times and proudly have it displayed by the major recruiting sites. There were glaring inconsistencies between Rivals, ESPN, Scout and 247 specs, and these same kids specs at independent and college camps, where everything is verifiable. It goes without saying that part of Rivals rating system is based on potential and when you have these HS kids reporting college level times, size and strength, then obviously potential seems really high. Self marketing at its finest!!!



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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    And that is one of the many reasons stars are a poor predictor of success in college. Garbage In, Garbage Out. Rankings based on flawed data will be flawed.


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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    I've never understood the obsession over 40 times. They might mean something if they had guys run on grass, in actual playing cleats, in full pads. Until then, it seems pretty silly to salivate over a guy running in track shoes, compression shorts, and shirtless on a perfect running surface.



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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    I'm not sure that HS recruits are intentionally dishonest, but the bottom line is that you can add ~0.2s to any HS 40 time that you see listed on Rivals or Scout and you will probably be pretty close to the truth.

    How many high school kids have laser-timed 40's? Even at the NFL combine the "official" 40 times were often 0.1 or more slower than the "unofficial" times. Hand-timed 40's are consistently 0.1-0.2 sec faster than laser-timed 40's due to the reaction time of the person running the stopwatch. This is well-known by HS recruits, many of whom avoid the combines that use laser timing because they don't want their 4.5 40 that their coach measured to become a 4.7 40 that Nike measured.



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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleCy View Post
    I'm not sure that HS recruits are intentionally dishonest, but the bottom line is that you can add ~0.2s to any HS 40 time that you see listed on Rivals or Scout and you will probably be pretty close to the truth.

    How many high school kids have laser-timed 40's? Even at the NFL combine the "official" 40 times were often 0.1 or more slower than the "unofficial" times. Hand-timed 40's are consistently 0.1-0.2 sec faster than laser-timed 40's due to the reaction time of the person running the stopwatch. This is well-known by HS recruits, many of whom avoid the combines that use laser timing because they don't want their 4.5 40 that their coach measured to become a 4.7 40 that Nike measured.
    By no means are all HS recruits dishonest, however, the majority that are dishonest, are so intentionally imo. I certainly don't judge any kid for it, but to think that adding 20 pounds to a frame and deducting .25 seconds from a 40 time is an oversight.....not buying it! Almost all camps, even college camps, are using hand held timers and as a result 40 times should be fairly consistent. As you stated, though, laser timed 40s are consistently .1-.2 seconds slower and are the exception.



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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    Its because you can never trust self reported 40 times. Stevie Hicks was listed as a 4.5 forty in high school.



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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    You can't really trust 40 times of HS players. They aren't taken by "professionals" and can be different depending on who's taking them.



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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    HS kids will use whatever recruiting services list them as the fastest 40. I am amazed when my players come back from "combines" and tell me their 40 times and how fast they supposedly are.


    Exaggeration is a BILLION times worse than understating.

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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    Quote Originally Posted by RustShack View Post
    You can't really trust 40 times of HS players. They aren't taken by "professionals" and can be different depending on who's taking them.

    I don't mean to sound contrary, but, college coaches are "professionals". A college coach who is timing a HS athlete in the 40 is doing everything he can to capture a true time. He is as professional as its going to get in regards to manual timing. Its just that, as you said, timing fluctuates from one timer to the next. That's why there are usually 4-5 timers for each run, so they can come up with something somewhat consistent. As long as we know a 40 time is manual (pretty much everything other than Nike or ESPN sponsored), it is still useful........................as long as it isn't SELF REPORTED. That's where the discrepancy comes into play.



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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    I would not look into 40 times too much. I'm sure the HS and NFL numbers are a bit off but think about how much bigger these guys are leaving college than when they are in HS. Moving more weight is more dificult and in college and NFL its night stright line speed that these programs are building. Its all about explosion and being able to do athletic things quickly. That can be measured in a 40 but things like stride lenth, form, and countless others also come into play. These guys are still putting up crazy numbers for how big they are.


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    Re: (40 times) Something to think about when watching recruiting

    I have never timed myself in a true 40 however I know I wasn't a burner. In played intermural football against a kid on the track team, freshman, that said he was a 4.35 and he couldn't out run me. I stopped giving a hoot about forty times after that.


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