Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30
  1. #1
    Pro
    Points: 95,213, Level: 96
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 1,837
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    ISUChippewa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,108
    Points
    95,213
    Level
    96
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 80
    Given: 96

    Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    So I'm watching the end of the George Mason-Kansas State basketball game tonight, and they are talking about USC playing later on tonight on ESPN2 and O.J. Mayo, and it got me to thinking a "what-if" question; Where would ISU basketball be right now if Tim Floyd had not been so ambitious to take the Bulls job and was still our coach, or at least had stuck around for a few more years?

    I asked this out loud to my dad, and his response was "Probably pretty close to Kansas." I mostly agree with him. I do think that Tim Floyd was our most complete coach we've ever had in terms of getting it done recruiting-wise and X's and O's and not having the baggage that led to LE's downfall.

    I know it's just idle, "what-if" type of thinking, but what do you all think about where ISU basketball would be right now if we still had TF?



  2. #2
    All-Star
    Points: 20,159, Level: 43
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 591
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    cyclonekj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,170
    Points
    20,159
    Level
    43
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 2

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    If he was still here, it would mean we hadn't done very well in the past several years. Tim Floyd is and was a climber who used the ISU job to further his career. We benefited and so did he. But if he hadn't left for the Bulls, it would have been somewhere else. Personally, I'm glad it proved to be a stepping stone to the NBA.


    Yeah well, ya know, that's just, like uh, your opinion, man.

  3. #3
    Starter
    Points: 9,546, Level: 29
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 404
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Cyfan322's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ames
    Posts
    609
    Points
    9,546
    Level
    29
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    I imagine that your assessment would not be far off. We would have had Fizer, Hinrich, and Collison all on one team for crying out loud.



  4. #4
    Hall-Of-Famer
    Points: 44,600, Level: 65
    Level completed: 27%, Points required for next Level: 950
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran25000 Experience Points
    cmoore_23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ankeny, IA
    Posts
    4,425
    Points
    44,600
    Level
    65
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 4
    Given: 21

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUChippewa View Post
    So I'm watching the end of the George Mason-Kansas State basketball game tonight, and they are talking about USC playing later on tonight on ESPN2 and O.J. Mayo, and it got me to thinking a "what-if" question; Where would ISU basketball be right now if Tim Floyd had not been so ambitious to take the Bulls job and was still our coach, or at least had stuck around for a few more years?

    I asked this out loud to my dad, and his response was "Probably pretty close to Kansas." I mostly agree with him. I do think that Tim Floyd was our most complete coach we've ever had in terms of getting it done recruiting-wise and X's and O's and not having the baggage that led to LE's downfall.

    I know it's just idle, "what-if" type of thinking, but what do you all think about where ISU basketball would be right now if we still had TF?

    I want to think this but at the same time.. how hard can it be to recruit guys to USC... i liked TF as much as any1 else.. i wish he would have stayed.. so with that said if you go with the what if factor.. would he have been as good at recruiting here as he is at USC w/o the NBA expierence and with the location? we will never know


    But my opinion on the actuall topic would be i think we would be a top 30 team year in and out


    Iowa State: Anyone who's a true college basketball fan needs to see a game at Hilton Coliseum. Nice is in the DNA of Iowans and the fans here are particularly gracious -- even when the home team loses but gives a great effort, they are appreciative.

    ESPN.com picked Hilton Coliseum as the "Hot Arena" in the Big 12...coaches in the league noted that, "regardless of talent, the Cyclones have a home court like no other."

  5. #5
    CF Founder
    Points: 237,705, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    Your first GroupVeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience Points
    Jeremy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Urbandale, IA
    Posts
    13,154
    Points
    237,705
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 291
    Given: 139

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    I think we'd probably be up at a pretty consistent level competing for the Big XII every two or three years. I don't think we'd have won any national championships but we'd be a Top 25 team just about every year.

    I think Floyd is a terrific coach but he had a tendency to get rid of players after a year just because he found somebody he liked better. That might not sound bad to some people but the NCAA sure wouldn't have put up with it.


    A program isn't built on one player and it doesn't succeed because of one player, thus a program won't fail if it doesn't get that one player.

  6. #6
    CF Founder
    Points: 237,705, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    Your first GroupVeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience Points
    Jeremy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Urbandale, IA
    Posts
    13,154
    Points
    237,705
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 291
    Given: 139

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    That was also a great point - Floyd never planned on staying here more than a couple years, regardless of his success. He used us as a stepping stone because ego is a huge part of who he is.


    A program isn't built on one player and it doesn't succeed because of one player, thus a program won't fail if it doesn't get that one player.

  7. #7
    All-Star
    Points: 24,400, Level: 47
    Level completed: 85%, Points required for next Level: 150
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    kentkel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Grinnell
    Posts
    1,076
    Points
    24,400
    Level
    47
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 76
    Given: 169

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    First of all, I think the TF era would not have lasted a whole lot longer at ISU even had he not left for 'da Bulls. I believe he was cordial enough to the ISU fan base, but I always felt that we were just a stepping stone to somewhere "better." Even with his promise to Marcus that he'd be at ISU for his career, I believe that if USC had come calling back then, TF would have taken the job - or at least SERIOUSLY considered it.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I agree whole-heartedly about Floyd being a complete coach. I rarely missed a TF post game interview or TF show with Pete Taylor! He was/is an incredible basketball mind, and I loved to listen as he analyzed each of the details of the game. I also loved how he really got our team to COMPETE on the road!!

    Now, to address your question more directly, I believe that had he stayed, we would be like aTm was under Gillespie. I truly believe that we would be mentioned in the same breath as KU and Texas each year. NCAA bids would NOT be a matter of "I hope we can get there" or "will we be chosen" but, rather, "will we get a number one, two or three seed."

    But, the fact that TF didn't stay shows that he isn't really the complete coach. IMHO, the complete coach is one who:
    - possesses incredible X&O knowledge
    - recruits & develops great talent & character
    - surrounds himself with great assistants
    - has a passion for ISU basketball & desires to take it to the highest level of excellence!!

    In regards to the above, Floyd's name could get high talent to notice ISU, at least much more easily than McD. However, the passion for ISU is something that I believe Floyd lacked big time!

    Now consider this scenario: McD takes us to the NC in 2011 and wins the whole thing. Meanwhile, Coach K leaves Duke & Duke pursues McD & offers him a job. In this case, I wouldn't blame McD for considering the offer. However, my true definition of a complete coach is one that thinks "this is the greatest job in the world" and "I want to retire knowing that I not only established ISU as a basketball power, but THE basketball power." Sorry for ramblin' on, but we're on the "what if" topic so I thought I'd elaborate on my dream for Cyclone Basketball.


    Last edited by kentkel; 11-22-2007 at 11:56 PM.
    Utah Utes, Illinois Illini. The University of Pennsylvania thought about following this pattern by calling themselves the Pennsylvania Pencils. However, they were afraid their students would start chanting "We're No. 2"

  8. #8
    Addict
    Points: 143,290, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points
    CrossCyed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    9,383
    Points
    143,290
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 9
    Given: 0

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    Quote Originally Posted by kentkel View Post
    First of all, I think the TF era would not have lasted a whole lot longer at ISU even had he not left for 'da Bulls. I believe he was cordial enough to the ISU fan base, but I always felt that we were just a stepping stone to somewhere "better." Even with his promise to Marcus that he'd be at ISU for his career, I believe that if USC had come calling back then, TF would have taken the job - or at least SERIOUSLY considered it.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I agree whole-heartedly about Floyd being a complete coach. I rarely missed a TF post game interview or TF show with Pete Taylor! He was/is an incredible basketball mind, and I loved to listen as he analyzed each of the details of the game. I also loved how he really got our team to COMPETE on the road!!

    Now, to address your question more directly, I believe that had he stayed, we would be like aTm was under Gillespie. I truly believe that we would be mentioned in the same breath as KU and Texas each year. NCAA bids would NOT be a matter of "I hope we can get there" or "will we be chosen" but, rather, "will we get a number one, two or three seed."

    But, the fact that TF didn't stay shows that he isn't really the complete coach. IMHO, the complete coach is one who:
    - possesses incredible X&O knowledge
    - recruits & develops great talent & character
    - surrounds himself with great assistants
    - has a passion for ISU basketball & desires to take it to the highest level of excellence!!

    In regards to the above, Floyd's name could get high talent to notice ISU, at least much more easily than McD. However, the passion for ISU is something that I believe Floyd lacked big time!

    Now consider this scenario: McD takes us to the NC in 2011 and wins the whole thing. Meanwhile, Coach K leaves Duke & Duke pursues McD & offers him a job. In this case, I wouldn't blame McD for considering the offer. However, my true definition of a complete coach is one that thinks "this is the greatest job in the world" and "I want to retire knowing that I not only established ISU as a basketball power, but THE basketball power." Sorry for ramblin' on, but we're on the "what if" topic so I thought I'd elaborate on my dream for Cyclone Basketball.
    I really doubt that anyone who wasn't born a Cyclone fan wouldn't leave for greener pastures if the money/prestige was right, including McD.



  9. #9
    All-Star
    Points: 24,400, Level: 47
    Level completed: 85%, Points required for next Level: 150
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    kentkel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Grinnell
    Posts
    1,076
    Points
    24,400
    Level
    47
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 76
    Given: 169

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossCyed View Post
    I really doubt that anyone who wasn't born a Cyclone fan wouldn't leave for greener pastures if the money/prestige was right, including McD.
    True. But I remember Eustachy saying that he would love to stay here as long as he could. If things had been different with his personal issues, I believe that he could have been that type of ISU career coach that took ISU basketball to a level even beyond JO & TF.

    I know that I like my kool-aid cardinal & gold, but a coach who wants to establish himself as a truly great coach - why not take a program that has great fans & an awesome environment (Hilton Magic), and commit to taking the program as far as you can, with the goal of establishing a "dynasty." Then, when you retire, you will be measured as ONE of the all-time greats!! OR, you could be the next Tubby Smith & use a major college (Georgia) as a stepping stone to the ultimate in prestige and $ (Kentucky) and have a rabid fan base calling for your head & forcing you out because you don't measure up to Rupp or Pitino.

    I think I'm going to have to log out soon - I'm about ready to pass out from too much of that kool-aid!


    Utah Utes, Illinois Illini. The University of Pennsylvania thought about following this pattern by calling themselves the Pennsylvania Pencils. However, they were afraid their students would start chanting "We're No. 2"

  10. #10
    Addict
    Points: 143,290, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points
    CrossCyed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    9,383
    Points
    143,290
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 9
    Given: 0

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    Quote Originally Posted by kentkel View Post
    True. But I remember Eustachy saying that he would love to stay here as long as he could. If things had been different with his personal issues, I believe that he could have been that type of ISU career coach that took ISU basketball to a level even beyond JO & TF.

    I know that I like my kool-aid cardinal & gold, but a coach who wants to establish himself as a truly great coach - why not take a program that has great fans & an awesome environment (Hilton Magic), and commit to taking the program as far as you can, with the goal of establishing a "dynasty." Then, when you retire, you will be measured as ONE of the all-time greats!! OR, you could be the next Tubby Smith & use a major college (Georgia) as a stepping stone to the ultimate in prestige and $ (Kentucky) and have a rabid fan base calling for your head & forcing you out because you don't measure up to Rupp or Pitino.

    I think I'm going to have to log out soon - I'm about ready to pass out from too much of that kool-aid!
    I had not heard that.

    I assure you, when I'm coaching at Iowa State, coming off my second Final Four, I'll stay here, and even make sure my salary fits into the AD's budget.



  11. #11
    Starter
    Points: 9,546, Level: 29
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 404
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Cyfan322's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ames
    Posts
    609
    Points
    9,546
    Level
    29
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    Quote Originally Posted by kentkel View Post
    But, the fact that TF didn't stay shows that he isn't really the complete coach. IMHO, the complete coach is one who:
    - possesses incredible X&O knowledge
    - recruits & develops great talent & character
    - surrounds himself with great assistants
    - has a passion for ISU basketball & desires to take it to the highest level of excellence!!
    Would you like to tell us how many coaches that you consider complete coaches? I can hardly think of any that meet all four of your requirements.



  12. #12
    Speechless
    Points: 727,995, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 82.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Cyclonepride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    A pineapple under the sea
    Posts
    47,051
    Points
    727,995
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,074
    Given: 572

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyfan322 View Post
    Would you like to tell us how many coaches that you consider complete coaches? I can hardly think of any that meet all four of your requirements.
    I can name one.......Greg McDermott.



  13. #13
    All-Star
    Points: 22,637, Level: 46
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 913
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    Cybone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    1,055
    Points
    22,637
    Level
    46
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2
    Given: 0

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    If Floyd had stayed? While it would be impossible to tell exactly where we would be I can give you an idea....

    Kirk Hinrich and Nick Collison would have come to ISU.

    Here is your starting set:
    PG - Tinsley
    SG - Horton
    SG - Hinrich
    PF - Fizer
    PF/C - Collison

    From that team there, we would probably would make another BIG run in the NCAA, at least Elite 8, probably Final 4. After that one run, Floyd would leave for a more lucrative job, but the profile of the program would have been greatly improved and bigger recruits would have taken notice.

    Now all we need is a Delorean with a Flux-Capaciter, enough plutonium to get the 1.21 jigawatts to power it and Dr. Emmet Brown.



  14. #14
    Speechless
    Points: 350,732, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialYour first GroupVeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience Points
    isucyfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Saint Paul, MN
    Posts
    19,856
    Points
    350,732
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 70
    Given: 1

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybone View Post
    If Floyd had stayed? While it would be impossible to tell exactly where we would be I can give you an idea....

    Kirk Hinrich and Nick Collison would have come to ISU.

    Here is your starting set:
    PG - Tinsley
    SG - Horton
    SG - Hinrich
    PF - Fizer
    PF/C - Collison

    From that team there, we would probably would make another BIG run in the NCAA, at least Elite 8, probably Final 4. After that one run, Floyd would leave for a more lucrative job, but the profile of the program would have been greatly improved and bigger recruits would have taken notice.

    Now all we need is a Delorean with a Flux-Capaciter, enough plutonium to get the 1.21 jigawatts to power it and Dr. Emmet Brown.
    If Hinrich came to ISU, we would have never gotten Tinsley. He was a LE recruit, and wouldn't have wanted to play backup to Hinrich.


    Forever trying to find a cure for the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

  15. #15
    Addict
    Points: 94,590, Level: 95
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 460
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    CYdTracked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Des Moines, IA
    Posts
    8,671
    Points
    94,590
    Level
    95
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2
    Given: 0

    Re: Hypothetical Tim Floyd question

    This is a tough question. Wasn't Floyd 12-18 his last season here and if I remember that team was pretty bad on talent with guys like Lee Love and some other no-name guards I can't even remember the names of. He did bring in a huge piece in Fizer but Larry also added Nurse, Tinsley, and Horton to what Floyd left him and I don't see us going to the Elite 8 let alone possibly the NCAA tourney without those guys.

    This is a big "what if." Like everyone has said, Floyd was using ISU as a stepping stone so he would have probably left at some point anyways. He also had some of his best years using juco rentals. Look at that team that won the last Big 8 tourney. Cato, Willoughby, Pratt, Bankhead were all 2 year rentals. I'm not downplaying what Floyd did here, he had some nice success but the way he was doing it makes me wonder if he could have kept it up over the long term.


    Go Cubs Go!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • Football
  • Iowa State vs. North Dakota State
  • August 30, 2014
  • 11:00 AM