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  1. #31
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    I think what gets to the heart of the matter is whether or not a child has an inherent right to a public school education even if they are not mentally or socially capable, or are not inclined to take advantage of it (the latter may be that the parents are not inclined to be involved). At some point, I think it needs to be recognized that their right to an education ends at the point where they start to become a hazard to other children or the staff, or when their needs cannot be met in a public school setting. I would be fine with a voucher of some sort that gives credit for the cost of a normal education to something more specialized.
    I agree but... The problem is, in a lot of communities, there is no other option.



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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Jambalaya View Post
    The joy of the public school system. Just throw more money their way. It's always a quick fix
    What in the world does his post have to do with public school funding?



  3. #33
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    I think what gets to the heart of the matter is whether or not a child has an inherent right to a public school education even if they are not mentally or socially capable, or are not inclined to take advantage of it (the latter may be that the parents are not inclined to be involved). At some point, I think it needs to be recognized that their right to an education ends at the point where they start to become a hazard to other children or the staff, or when their needs cannot be met in a public school setting. I would be fine with a voucher of some sort that gives credit for the cost of a normal education to something more specialized.
    Que?



  4. #34
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by mtowncyclone13 View Post
    The kid sees devils in the time out room so he freaks out when he has to go in there. But then he punches, pushes, and spits on teachers.
    If the kid literally sees devils in the timeout room then he has a serious mental health issue. He may be hearing voices also. He needs to be evaluated by mental health professionals.



  5. #35
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    You do know that it's DOCTORS who diagnose, don't you? You do know that the mental health community came up with the diagnoses in their DSM manual? Not schools?
    It doesn't excuse doctors from prescribing Ritalin out of Pez dispensers the way they have in the past, either. I'm not saying that kids with ADHD don't need a medication to control their hyperactivity (trust me - I had a kid with ADHD when I was a day camp counselor 15 years ago, and when she didn't have her medication, let's just say "uncontrollable" was an understatement). What I'm saying is not every kid with a mental disorder should be medicated and we don't need to be zombifying our kids just because they're acting like kids.

    This is just another sign that as a nation we still don't know how to handle mental illness, and patchwork legislation just makes things worse.

    And it's not just "small" school districts that have problems handling special needs kids. I grew up in the Davenport School District - I'm not too confident in their special needs programs. They used to have a special needs school (Truman Elementary), but they ended up disbanding the program there and integrating the school because of "labels". But, like I said, I'm not convinced because of that the special needs kids get the attention they deserve anymore.


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  6. #36
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    You do know that it's DOCTORS who diagnose, don't you? You do know that the mental health community came up with the diagnoses in their DSM manual? Not schools?
    Ya it is the doctors prescribing the pills, but the system worked this way. Teacher and school nurse tell the parent to see their doctor about ADHD because the child is acting a certain way. There is usually a veiled threat like, putting child in special needs or holding them back. Trusting parents take kid to doctor and get prescription based off this information no questions asked. Doctor doles out pills, teachers don't have to "deal" with it any more.


    That rug really tied the room together, did it not dude?

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  7. #37
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by fatkid1974 View Post
    Ya it is the doctors prescribing the pills, but the system worked this way. Teacher and school nurse tell the parent to see their doctor about ADHD because the child is acting a certain way. There is usually a veiled threat like, putting child in special needs or holding them back. Trusting parents take kid to doctor and get prescription based off this information no questions asked. Doctor doles out pills, teachers don't have to "deal" with it any more.
    Doctors giving out prescriptions without asking questions seems like a doctor problem, not a school problem.



  8. #38
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    Man, you sound like someone with an axe to grind! If the administrators and teachers don't have students best interests in mind, why are they working with kids? It ain't to get rich, brother.

    Not equipped to deal with significant needs? Probably true. Most schools don't employ behavioral specialists, mental health counselors, or psychologists. That s the extent of truth in your statement.
    I'll take some blame for posting from my mobile which may have caused some of your reading comprehension issues.

    Never blamed the teachers.

    Never said anything about anyone getting rich.

    Adminstrators make decisions based on the specific needs for that school/district. For cash strapped districts, sending the students to an outsourced program means less money for the school. So instead of losing the money, they will cobble together an in-house program just to keep the funding. There are some schools which change from in-house to outsourced every couple of years as a result of ths cobbled approach. For a student with special needs, the lack of consistency doesn't help one bit.

    For some schools without funding problems, and since these are often times in well-to-do areas, administators don't want the parents to think their children are co-mingled with special needs kids. So they decide the outsourced method is the way to go. Out of sight, out of mind. This is especially true with behavior disorder kids. The last thing they want are parents finding out there are repeated problems as a result of the "bad" kids. The parents pay good tax money for their kid to be in a school without problem kids (actual comment from one administrator).



  9. #39
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by mtowncyclone13 View Post
    I am watching this show on PBS about Adam Lanza the Sandy Hook killer. My wife, a teacher, comes in and tells me one of her special needs students who has punched her in that past told her he was going to bring in a gun to school and kill the teachers because he had to sit out a recess. She tells the principle and the kid repeats it saying everyone better watch out. The counselors and parents got together but the kid didn't have any punishment. From what she tells me it wasn't a Lego gun kiddy threat but the kid has serious mental issues.

    The counselors say the kid needs to have an evaluation but the parents refuse because the dad has aspergers and they don't want their kid labeled with mental issues. How do we force this for these types of kids? The kid is 7 by the way.

    Sorry, just need to vent because it scares me. I need to worry less, not more.
    I am asking the moderators to remove this post.

    This post is breaking confidentiality and should be removed. You have put private information of a child, an adult, and the school policies on a public forum. Your wife is not supposed to tell you anything in relation to a person’s health at school. Also, you should not be putting this information online. Someone could use this information to identify everyone involved. If this happens your wife will not have to worry about her problems at the school for much longer. Think before you write on a public forum.



  10. #40
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by notoriouslfb View Post
    I am asking the moderators to remove this post.

    This post is breaking confidentiality and should be removed. You have put private information of a child, an adult, and the school policies on a public forum. Your wife is not supposed to tell you anything in relation to a person’s health at school. Also, you should not be putting this information online. Someone could use this information to identify everyone involved. If this happens your wife will not have to worry about her problems at the school for much longer. Think before you write on a public forum.
    Biggie smalls brings up an interesting point.



  11. #41
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneChris View Post
    I'll take some blame for posting from my mobile which may have caused some of your reading comprehension issues.

    Never blamed the teachers.

    Never said anything about anyone getting rich.

    Adminstrators make decisions based on the specific needs for that school/district. For cash strapped districts, sending the students to an outsourced program means less money for the school. So instead of losing the money, they will cobble together an in-house program just to keep the funding. There are some schools which change from in-house to outsourced every couple of years as a result of ths cobbled approach. For a student with special needs, the lack of consistency doesn't help one bit.

    For some schools without funding problems, and since these are often times in well-to-do areas, administators don't want the parents to think their children are co-mingled with special needs kids. So they decide the outsourced method is the way to go. Out of sight, out of mind. This is especially true with behavior disorder kids. The last thing they want are parents finding out there are repeated problems as a result of the "bad" kids. The parents pay good tax money for their kid to be in a school without problem kids (actual comment from one administrator).
    No reading comprehension issues. You said schools. A school is a building. It is the people who make decisions... i.e. the teachers and administrators. So when you say schools do something, what you mean (whether you intend it or not) is that the people in the school do it.

    They may "cobble" together a program because they are required by law to provide a program to serve that kid or find that student an alternative placement. There may be some who "cobble" together a program to serve that child due to budgetary constraints. But what is the alternative? If there isn't money to tuition out a student, would you prefer they ran in the red?? And what if there isn't an alternative program nearby to send students? In the metro area (Ames and Des Moines), name the programs. You can count them on one hand.

    And actually many large districts that have the money to create an alternative program in-house have one. They don't send them somewhere else.

    Need to get your facts in order.



  12. #42
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    I think there is always going to be the occasionally kid who is messed up in the head at school... you just hope he gets the help he needs and/or his parents aren't dumb enough to leave their guns where their messed up kid can get them.



  13. #43
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by notoriouslfb View Post
    I am asking the moderators to remove this post.

    This post is breaking confidentiality and should be removed. You have put private information of a child, an adult, and the school policies on a public forum. Your wife is not supposed to tell you anything in relation to a person’s health at school. Also, you should not be putting this information online. Someone could use this information to identify everyone involved. If this happens your wife will not have to worry about her problems at the school for much longer. Think before you write on a public forum.
    Yea, I was kind of wondering about that whole HIPPA/FERPA thing as well when I was reading that.


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  14. #44
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by mtowncyclone13 View Post
    I disagree although you bring up good points. If the mods want to amend or remove I wouldn't object because the larger issue is more important than the details.

    There are six school districts in my area that probably employ 1,000 certified employees, none of which I have named, in-whole or in-part. The acknowledgment of an IEP in Iowa is not a breach of confidentiality; the disclosure of information within the IEP to non-legitimate sources is a breach. More importantly, since this family refuses to get the child tested there is no IEP information on him. Finally, I hardly think a student punching and spitting on my wife must remain confidential - in fact all actions like that should be publicized.

    The main point is we have situations where some children are suspended for petty reasons (bringing lego gun to school) and when a child with obvious severe issues has no consequences for threats we have a systematic failure.
    It does not matter what you think. These are educational records (FERPA) about a student and his father's condition. Whether or not legally binding it puts the student and father in a bad position. They can't argue with you without disclosing who they are. If someone on this board knows your identity then they could very well figure out the person who you are talking about. You do not know who is on this board and reading these posts.

    Do a favor and stop posting about your wifes students. That is the main point.



  15. #45
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    Re: School shooting documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by mtowncyclone13 View Post
    The kid sees devils in the time out room so he freaks out when he has to go in there. But then he punches, pushes, and spits on teachers.
    IMO your wife is justified in feeling threatened and so should get the school board/police involved if no one else like the principal will do anything. If Lanza had any warning signs I'll bet they were similar to this kid.











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