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  1. #61
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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycsk View Post
    I actually checked the rulebook on this and couldn't find a clear statement. It seems to me that it would be the same as an in-bounds pass that gets thrown out of bounds without anyone touching it. The ball goes back to where it was thrown in, doesn't it? The only difference here is that the location of the foul may trump the location of the in-bounds pass that was never touched in play.
    From the casebook...this is the situation closest to how the play occurred:

    A.R. 106. B1 deflects the ball away from A1 while:
    (1) A1 is dribbling the ball; or
    (2) A1 is passing the ball to A2.
    A1, in an attempt to recover the ball, fouls B1.
    RULING: In (1) and (2), A1 has committed a team control foul. The
    foul shall be charged to A1, and the ball shall be awarded to Team B
    at a designated spot nearest to where A1’s foul was committed.



  2. #62
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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    It's comparable to a moving screen.



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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Why no 5 second call on Smart before he hit the gw?? How could they miss that?



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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    There were a couple questionable calls. But overall, a well officiated game I thought! Ejim block/body foul for one I didn't agree with..



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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjhavlo76 View Post
    There were a couple questionable calls. But overall, a well officiated game I thought! Ejim block/body foul for one I didn't agree with..
    John and Eric wholeheartedly disagreed with you. They may be homers somewhat, but tThat is the maddest I have ever heard either of them.


    "There are five real good recruits in the state. We got three of them. One couldn’t get into school, and the other went to (the University of) Iowa...which is about the same thing." - Coach Johnny Orr

  6. #66
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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Quote Originally Posted by kingcy View Post
    I would rather take a shot at a 3 then a 1 and 1.
    That is really stupid.



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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4CY4EVR View Post
    Why no 5 second call on Smart before he hit the gw?? How could they miss that?
    The ref signaled Clyburn was further than 5 feet away. You have to remember it is from how far the defenders feet are from the opposing player. Not his body.



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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Okie State got a lot of calls down the stretch that we didn't but that happens on the road I guess.
    The Ejim call was complete bs.



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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    How is throwing a pass different than shooting a shot? Either way it is no longer in the original shooter/passers possession. The second it leaves his hand it should be considered a loose ball.

    So you can maintain possession of the ball by passing it even though it's out of your hands, but you lose possession of the ball by shooting it when it's out of your hands. It makes zero sense.

    Here is a scenario: What if an offensive player shoots/passes an air ball that you can't tell if it's a pass or a shot and another offensive player goes over the back and fouls the defensive player. Is that considered a player control foul or a foul that the defensive player will be rewarded free throws.

    That is such a HUGE HUGE flaw in the rule book if that is in fact the rule.



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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Because John Higgins is a horrible ref and he hates Iowa State....



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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyguytillidie View Post
    It's comparable to a moving screen.
    .

    You are correct,let's say that on the inbound pass an OSU player was called for a moving or illegal screen,would free throws been awarded,the answer to that is no and that is the same as what was called last night,no free throws awarded to ISU was the correct call.



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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Good morning, everyone. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see the game so I don't know precisely what happened but I'll try to help out if possible.

    Team control. A team is in control of the ball when a player from that team is in possession of the ball, a live ball is being passed between teammates, during an interrupted dribble (i.e. if a player from Team A loses control of his dribble and goes to chase it down, Team A is still considered in control of the ball), when a player has the ball at his disposal for a throw-in.

    There is no team control after a shot is released. So, rebounding fouls are generally NOT team control fouls and therefore you do shoot free throws. A little OT but for the same reason, if ISU shoots a three, it bounds off the rim and McGee bats it into the backcourt, he can recover legally without violating because team control was lost with the shot and, therefore, there is no over-and-back violation.

    So now you know what team control is. MOST team control fouls are illegal screens. A few years ago it was decided by the powers that be that shooting free throws after a team control foul disrupted the flow of the game too much while the teams meandered to the other end to shoot. It was decided to make team control fouls simply a turnover and, as far as I know, most coaches supported the change.

    If anyone has any other questions or I've missed something in my explanation I'd be happy to add more. Just don't shoot the messenger.



  13. #73
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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Quote Originally Posted by theshadow View Post
    From the casebook...this is the situation closest to how the play occurred:

    A.R. 106. B1 deflects the ball away from A1 while:
    (1) A1 is dribbling the ball; or
    (2) A1 is passing the ball to A2.
    A1, in an attempt to recover the ball, fouls B1.
    RULING: In (1) and (2), A1 has committed a team control foul. The
    foul shall be charged to A1, and the ball shall be awarded to Team B
    at a designated spot nearest to where A1’s foul was committed.

    I guess the foul rule trumps the throw-in rule in terms of location of the ball. I thought that because the ball never entered play (Babb was fouled before he even touched the ball, hence no time got taken off the clock), it might defer to this rule:

    Art. 2. When a throw-in provision is violated, the new throw-in shall be from the
    same designated spot as that of the original throw-in.



  14. #74
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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycsk View Post
    I guess the foul rule trumps the throw-in rule in terms of location of the ball. I thought that because the ball never entered play (Babb was fouled before he even touched the ball, hence no time got taken off the clock), it might defer to this rule:

    Art. 2. When a throw-in provision is violated, the new throw-in shall be from the
    same designated spot as that of the original throw-in.
    Violations and fouls are two different things. The article you have cited refers specifically to a violation. Ball location after a foul will always be at the spot nearest to where the foul occurred.



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    Re: Why no FT's at the end?

    Quote Originally Posted by ruxCYtable View Post
    Good morning, everyone. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see the game so I don't know precisely what happened but I'll try to help out if possible.

    Team control. A team is in control of the ball when a player from that team is in possession of the ball, a live ball is being passed between teammates, during an interrupted dribble (i.e. if a player from Team A loses control of his dribble and goes to chase it down, Team A is still considered in control of the ball), when a player has the ball at his disposal for a throw-in.

    There is no team control after a shot is released. So, rebounding fouls are generally NOT team control fouls and therefore you do shoot free throws. A little OT but for the same reason, if ISU shoots a three, it bounds off the rim and McGee bats it into the backcourt, he can recover legally without violating because team control was lost with the shot and, therefore, there is no over-and-back violation.

    So now you know what team control is. MOST team control fouls are illegal screens. A few years ago it was decided by the powers that be that shooting free throws after a team control foul disrupted the flow of the game too much while the teams meandered to the other end to shoot. It was decided to make team control fouls simply a turnover and, as far as I know, most coaches supported the change.

    If anyone has any other questions or I've missed something in my explanation I'd be happy to add more. Just don't shoot the messenger.



    Okay, Rux, you obviously know your rulebook much better than me.

    So, where should we have gotten the ball after the foul?

    OSU throws the ball in-bounds from in front of our bench. Babb gets great defensive position and goes up for the ball. Babb gets fouled before touching the ball (as shown by no time being taken off the clock). Should we throw the ball in from near where the foul occurred (what the refs called) or from where the first in-bounds throw was (near our bench) because the ball never was "in play?"



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