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Thread: New OL Coach

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    Re: New OL Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Luth4Cy View Post
    Then we are in big trouble cuz Klenakis doesn't own the pistol either. Chris Ault does and Klenakis was simply an assistant. Just like Mess was with Herman.
    Yeah, just like it, except in length of tenure and that Mess was a position coach under Herman while Klenakis was an OC. Oh, and the fact that Herman's offense is more of a collection of songs from a cover band while Ault's is more of an original album.

    Not that I think him writing a book means much, but Mess worked with Herman and his offense for only 3 years- doubtful he could write a book on parts of such a "mobius playbook" like Lenakis wrote for aspects of Ault's.



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    Re: New OL Coach

    Well one more coach to replace and I am happy. I have to admit I was disappointed when I read this on Twitter and found out Mess was still here.



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    Re: New OL Coach

    Arkansas fans don't have the best reviews of him.


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    Re: New OL Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Goothrey View Post
    Arkansas fans don't have the best reviews of him.
    Arkansas fans are also bitter that their season went to crap because Petrino got fired and they didn't win the national championship. i would trade his o-line's productivity the last 3 seasons in the SEC vs. ours over the past 3 years. the offense they had in the SEC would not have been possible without the o-line.



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    Re: New OL Coach

    Does this mean we might actually get an Offensive Line?




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    Re: New OL Coach

    This is the best news for ISU football in a year. The OL play has been atrocious for the last 2 years, and that was with two NFL guys on the team a year ago. This year was shade of Marty Fine.......



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    Re: New OL Coach

    Will be nice​ to see what a new guy can do with real talent like Campos & Homa.











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    Re: New OL Coach

    It's sort of unclear what position he will be coaching. Conflicting reports.


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    Re: New OL Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    Yeah, just like it, except in length of tenure and that Mess was a position coach under Herman while Klenakis was an OC. Oh, and the fact that Herman's offense is more of a collection of songs from a cover band while Ault's is more of an original album.

    Not that I think him writing a book means much, but Mess worked with Herman and his offense for only 3 years- doubtful he could write a book on parts of such a "mobius playbook" like Lenakis wrote for aspects of Ault's.
    So if Mess would have been an assistant for 6 years it would have been okay?



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    Re: New OL Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Luth4Cy View Post
    So if Mess would have been an assistant for 6 years it would have been okay?
    Nope, as Klenakis was an OC for 6 years in a specific offense.

    If Mess had helped Ault, or any other author of a significant offense, develop said offense as an assistant for 17 years, including 6 as an OC, had other BCS coaching experience, he would be "okay".
    But qualifications only go so far, and if his product looked like what we saw this past year (if a positive to his hire was continuity, you cannot also say it was Year 1), you need to have doubts.

    We need to get away from Herman's offense, or even worse, having an unproven, career position coach running Herman's offense based on 3 years of "learning" it. Hopefully we are making a change now, or at the very least, making Mess a figurehead OC. I understand you are coming from the angle of prove Mess will not be a Big 12-level OC, which for you would be years of failure.



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    Re: New OL Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    Nope, as Klenakis was an OC for 6 years in a specific offense.

    If Mess had helped Ault, or any other author of a significant offense, develop said offense as an assistant for 17 years, including 6 as an OC, had other BCS coaching experience, he would be "okay".
    But qualifications only go so far, and if his product looked like what we saw this past year (if a positive to his hire was continuity, you cannot also say it was Year 1), you need to have doubts.

    We need to get away from Herman's offense, or even worse, having an unproven, career position coach running Herman's offense based on 3 years of "learning" it. Hopefully we are making a change now, or at the very least, making Mess a figurehead OC. I understand you are coming from the angle of prove Mess will not be a Big 12-level OC, which for you would be years of failure.
    What if we bring in Klenakis as OC to run our offense, aka not a lot of pistol?



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    Re: New OL Coach

    I think Messingham gets one more year. If the offense does not improve this year, he gets demoted or is gone. We have two former BCS level OCs on staff. Consistency only goes so for if it is consistently bad.

    I LOVE adding more pistol influence to the offense. I think we can do well with that. It's becoming more commonly used, but not so much that everyone in the Big12 knows everything about it.



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    Re: New OL Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by Luth4Cy View Post
    What if we bring in Klenakis as OC to run our offense, aka not a lot of pistol?
    First we have to define what you mean by our offense? It is a holistic, but let's say there are two main components, the playbook and the implementation of the playbook. You mean force Klenakis to use exclusively our playbook? Would be preferred over Mess, as although not exactly the same, there are shared principles and probably even plays (as we have discussed in the other thread, and reinforced by the fact we have pistol in "our" offense). He has a track record of doing it better.

    Would not be as sound logically as hiring him to run what he has proven to be an expert in with few equals, especially when unlike Mess, Klenakis hire is defendable without using the "continuity" defense. Why would want continuity from the last 4 years?...



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    Re: New OL Coach

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    First we have to define what you mean by our offense? It is a holistic, but let's say there are two main components, the playbook and the implementation of the playbook. You mean force Klenakis to use exclusively our playbook? Would be preferred over Mess, as although not exactly the same, there are shared principles and probably even plays (as we have discussed in the other thread, and reinforced by the fact we have pistol in "our" offense). He has a track record of doing it better.

    Would not be as sound logically as hiring him to run what he has proven to be an expert in with few equals, especially when unlike Mess, Klenakis hire is defendable without using the "continuity" defense. Why would want continuity from the last 4 years?...
    I disagree with you plain and simple. It surprises me that you struggle to see the potential this offense has with the right recruits, and the awful history schools have of lacking continuity with the play caller on either side of the ball. No reason to not give Mess another year. This season had signs of what our offense can be and will become with the right coaching, athletes, and quarterback. We had over 300 yards of total offense at half vs. Kansas. That is why Rhoads wants continuity, because the pieces are there, they just need to be put in the puzzle.



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    Re: New OL Coach

    For Fred's sake (I refuse to take our lord and savior's name in vain, so I go with the next in line of awesomeness), you guys are actually having two arguments in two threads at the same time about the same thing?




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