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  1. #46
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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    And to follow up just my opinion...

    If the Big 12 can't get CLemson and someone else from the ACC.... they are getting hit next since Texas will join the ACC when ND becomes a full time member. There is a handshake agreement ND join full time once the automatic playoff birth is confirmed and they're playing 5 games already against ACC teams so 3 more isn't a huge deal (they can still play Stanford, USC, Army, and Navy each year as a full time member.)

    So...

    Texas to ACC with Notre Dame (both get to keep TV deals.)

    KU and Kstate to PAC.

    OU and OSU to B1G.

    Thats 4 16 team conferences and ISU, WVA, and 3 remaining Texas schools get screwed since joining up with the MWC and BE to make another 16 team conference probably won't be enough (but depending on the size of the playoff the highest ranked team from those conferences might get in.)

    This only changes if someone lures Clemson and anothr ACC school away to get their 12 (could be GT, Miami, FSU etc likely won't be North Carolina despite that being the team targeted most aggressively.)



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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    I can't make up my mind about you, SyracuseCyclone. A lot of the time you make good contributions to the site. And then every once in awhile, you post claptrap like the two posts above.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Walton
    Think Oscar Wilde when he said, "every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." But also think Neil Young: the fork in the road, light a candle. Instead of cursing the darkness, let's light a candle for where we're going. This was fantastic for the world. We are better people for having been here. It was absolutely incredible. I'm inspired. I don't know when I'll ever sleep again.

  3. #48
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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by Ry4Cy View Post
    How about we just get a few more teams.
    We can't. We can only add teams that add value to our contract and those teams aren't interested in joining the B12 until the SEC and B1G rule them out first.

    We have a very limited pool to choose from and none of those schools are willing to jump to their plan C



  4. #49
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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by SyracuseCyclone View Post
    And to follow up just my opinion...

    If the Big 12 can't get CLemson and someone else from the ACC.... they are getting hit next since Texas will join the ACC when ND becomes a full time member. There is a handshake agreement ND join full time once the automatic playoff birth is confirmed and they're playing 5 games already against ACC teams so 3 more isn't a huge deal (they can still play Stanford, USC, Army, and Navy each year as a full time member.)

    So...

    Texas to ACC with Notre Dame (both get to keep TV deals.)

    KU and Kstate to PAC.

    OU and OSU to B1G.

    Thats 4 16 team conferences and ISU, WVA, and 3 remaining Texas schools get screwed since joining up with the MWC and BE to make another 16 team conference probably won't be enough (but depending on the size of the playoff the highest ranked team from those conferences might get in.)

    This only changes if someone lures Clemson and anothr ACC school away to get their 12 (could be GT, Miami, FSU etc likely won't be North Carolina despite that being the team targeted most aggressively.)


    OU and OSU to the Big Ten, huh? OSU will be welcomed with open arms to the CIC.



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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by SyracuseCyclone View Post
    Yeah, but just like ISU can still draw NFL and NBA sized crowds in a very small state as the second most popular team Louisville Basketball generates far more revenues than Kentucky in their brand new arena despite UK being more popular. There is an 8k waiting list for tickets at KFC Yum center.

    The football program is on the way up. Right now its stock is significantly higher than WVA in fb. Wasn't the case a few months ago but things change quickly and Oliver Luck might get a quick trigger on Holgerson if his offense doesn't look good minus 2 first rounders. The stadium is fine since its been upgraded recently. And there is TONS of corporate money. AND... unlike a Maryland or UK their program is self sufficient and profitable (UK very heavily subsidized by the state.)


    Louisville got overlooked because they got compared head to head with uconn, and also Cincinatti who are very similar to them. So they did not appear as the gem of the 3. THey are though.

    They got screwed badly academically in comparison to uconn because of their commuter rep (which is false there's 30k undergrads and 80% of freshmen live on campus) the two schools are identical academically but people think uconn actually has decent academics which it doesn't. For some disgusting reason uconn has dramatically risen up the US news and world reports rankings in the last decade (sports success does that) and gets a high rank these days (my alma mater has plummetted in the last 10 years due to a crappy chancellor who was butthurt because Harvard passed her over to be chancellor we used to be in the 40s of major universities and them in the 70s only 5-10 years ago and now a days they come in a few spots higher than us it makes me want to throw up typing that.)

    uconn's 2 recent national championships in BB made them appear the better hoops program despite LVille's BB team generating the most revenue of any in the country. ANd uconn had the BCS blowout to OU recently.

    So the comparison to uconn didn't help them. And then they got compared to Cinci. Lville=Cinci in terms of markets. THere is no difference. No difference academically. Neck and neck in FB (but Lville had the better stadium and crowds.) ANd Cinci had a good year last year in BB so Lville being much better wasn't apparent. Louisville just didn't stick out when being lumped in and compared to those 3 schools.

    But Lousiville has excellent facilities and will be a powerhouse immediately in the ACC. They'd have been perfect for the Big 12. Like I explained though it was not all that apparent that they were the gem of the 3 shunted BE schools in them, uconn, and Cinci (not counting USF or Temple for obvious reasons) if it was more obvious a year or a few months ago even they'd have gotten an invite to the Big 12.


    Big 12 screwed up. With A+M's amazing success the Longhorns could easily forgo their commitment to the Oklahoma schools. KU will jump in a heartbeat if anyone asks and take KSU with them (could be the PAC to boost hoops and make up for CU and UU sucking.)

    Right now the Big 12 and ACC are equally vulnerable to be that last conference that gets raided in the next round of expansions. If the Big 12 had got Louisville they'd be lookin pretty. They are a much better program than Cinci or Uconn even though it wasn't grossly apparent.
    LOL, no! See: Grant of Rights.



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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by SyracuseCyclone View Post
    And to follow up just my opinion...

    If the Big 12 can't get CLemson and someone else from the ACC.... they are getting hit next since Texas will join the ACC when ND becomes a full time member. There is a handshake agreement ND join full time once the automatic playoff birth is confirmed and they're playing 5 games already against ACC teams so 3 more isn't a huge deal (they can still play Stanford, USC, Army, and Navy each year as a full time member.)

    So...

    Texas to ACC with Notre Dame (both get to keep TV deals.)

    KU and Kstate to PAC.

    OU and OSU to B1G.

    Thats 4 16 team conferences and ISU, WVA, and 3 remaining Texas schools get screwed since joining up with the MWC and BE to make another 16 team conference probably won't be enough (but depending on the size of the playoff the highest ranked team from those conferences might get in.)

    This only changes if someone lures Clemson and anothr ACC school away to get their 12 (could be GT, Miami, FSU etc likely won't be North Carolina despite that being the team targeted most aggressively.)


    Hard to believe you are serious. If so, this is an early contender for worst post of the year.



  7. #52
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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue52 View Post
    I think the thought is a conference championship without divisions -- which the Big 12 could do because of the full round robin. Then, the top two teams play in the conference championship game. This year it would have been a rematch of OU vs. KSU. Last year, it would have been an ugly rematch of OSU vs. OU in back-to-back weeks.

    I don't really like the idea because we already have the full round robin, but I think it's a good idea to have the possibility in your back pocket.
    I was also thinking something like this, and I think the best thing about this as a opposed to two divisions is that it will make for sure a marque match-up with the two best teams in the conference. Just because two teams are division winners does not mean they are the two best teams in conference.



  8. #53
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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by MLawrence View Post
    I was also thinking something like this, and I think the best thing about this as a opposed to two divisions is that it will make for sure a marque match-up with the two best teams in the conference. Just because two teams are division winners does not mean they are the two best teams in conference.
    Exactly. In the early years of the Big 12 the south winner probably wouldn't have finished higher than 3rd place in the north when NU and CU and occasionally KSU were dominant. When the power shifted in the early 2000's the north winner probably wouldn't have placed in the top 4 of the south. Some pretty average NU, CU, and KSU teams have played in the conference championship game while a top 10 south team watched it from home.



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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4735 View Post
    LOL, no! See: Grant of Rights.
    Have you seen the Big 12 GOR? I'd really like to see it, but since it hasn't been made public (at least to my knowledge), it's pretty difficult to judge how iron-clad it really is. If you have seen it, please comment on the details.

    According to the latest EADA report, UT's revenue for 2011-2012 was $163,295,114. UT could get by pretty easily with the approximately $30,000,000/yr they'd lose if they chose to leave the Big 12. Not so much for the other nine teams. Then again, with $163,000,000 in revenue, I'm not really sure why UT would want to leave.


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  10. #55
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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by SyracuseCyclone View Post
    Yeah, but just like ISU can still draw NFL and NBA sized crowds in a very small state as the second most popular team Louisville Basketball generates far more revenues than Kentucky in their brand new arena despite UK being more popular. There is an 8k waiting list for tickets at KFC Yum center.

    The football program is on the way up. Right now its stock is significantly higher than WVA in fb. Wasn't the case a few months ago but things change quickly and Oliver Luck might get a quick trigger on Holgerson if his offense doesn't look good minus 2 first rounders. The stadium is fine since its been upgraded recently. And there is TONS of corporate money. AND... unlike a Maryland or UK their program is self sufficient and profitable (UK very heavily subsidized by the state.)


    Louisville got overlooked because they got compared head to head with uconn, and also Cincinatti who are very similar to them. So they did not appear as the gem of the 3. THey are though.

    They got screwed badly academically in comparison to uconn because of their commuter rep (which is false there's 30k undergrads and 80% of freshmen live on campus) the two schools are identical academically but people think uconn actually has decent academics which it doesn't. For some disgusting reason uconn has dramatically risen up the US news and world reports rankings in the last decade (sports success does that) and gets a high rank these days (my alma mater has plummetted in the last 10 years due to a crappy chancellor who was butthurt because Harvard passed her over to be chancellor we used to be in the 40s of major universities and them in the 70s only 5-10 years ago and now a days they come in a few spots higher than us it makes me want to throw up typing that.)

    uconn's 2 recent national championships in BB made them appear the better hoops program despite LVille's BB team generating the most revenue of any in the country. ANd uconn had the BCS blowout to OU recently.

    So the comparison to uconn didn't help them. And then they got compared to Cinci. Lville=Cinci in terms of markets. THere is no difference. No difference academically. Neck and neck in FB (but Lville had the better stadium and crowds.) ANd Cinci had a good year last year in BB so Lville being much better wasn't apparent. Louisville just didn't stick out when being lumped in and compared to those 3 schools.

    But Lousiville has excellent facilities and will be a powerhouse immediately in the ACC. They'd have been perfect for the Big 12. Like I explained though it was not all that apparent that they were the gem of the 3 shunted BE schools in them, uconn, and Cinci (not counting USF or Temple for obvious reasons) if it was more obvious a year or a few months ago even they'd have gotten an invite to the Big 12.


    Big 12 screwed up. With A+M's amazing success the Longhorns could easily forgo their commitment to the Oklahoma schools. KU will jump in a heartbeat if anyone asks and take KSU with them (could be the PAC to boost hoops and make up for CU and UU sucking.)

    Right now the Big 12 and ACC are equally vulnerable to be that last conference that gets raided in the next round of expansions. If the Big 12 had got Louisville they'd be lookin pretty. They are a much better program than Cinci or Uconn even though it wasn't grossly apparent.
    Quote Originally Posted by SyracuseCyclone View Post
    And to follow up just my opinion...

    If the Big 12 can't get CLemson and someone else from the ACC.... they are getting hit next since Texas will join the ACC when ND becomes a full time member. There is a handshake agreement ND join full time once the automatic playoff birth is confirmed and they're playing 5 games already against ACC teams so 3 more isn't a huge deal (they can still play Stanford, USC, Army, and Navy each year as a full time member.)

    So...

    Texas to ACC with Notre Dame (both get to keep TV deals.)

    KU and Kstate to PAC.

    OU and OSU to B1G.

    Thats 4 16 team conferences and ISU, WVA, and 3 remaining Texas schools get screwed since joining up with the MWC and BE to make another 16 team conference probably won't be enough (but depending on the size of the playoff the highest ranked team from those conferences might get in.)

    This only changes if someone lures Clemson and anothr ACC school away to get their 12 (could be GT, Miami, FSU etc likely won't be North Carolina despite that being the team targeted most aggressively.)
    You must have a voluminous butt in order to pull all of this crap out of it.



  11. #56
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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhtexas View Post
    Have you seen the Big 12 GOR? I'd really like to see it, but since it hasn't been made public (at least to my knowledge), it's pretty difficult to judge how iron-clad it really is. If you have seen it, please comment on the details.

    According to the latest EADA report, UT's revenue for 2011-2012 was $163,295,114. UT could get by pretty easily with the approximately $30,000,000/yr they'd lose if they chose to leave the Big 12. Not so much for the other nine teams. Then again, with $163,000,000 in revenue, I'm not really sure why UT would want to leave.
    I have not seen it, but its concept seems pretty simple to me, and I don't think it would be anywhere near easy to get out of, at least not as easy as it is to get out of the buyout clauses.

    That being said, my point remains the same...the Big 12 is no where near to being as equally vulnerable as the ACC.



  12. #57
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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhtexas View Post
    Have you seen the Big 12 GOR? I'd really like to see it, but since it hasn't been made public (at least to my knowledge), it's pretty difficult to judge how iron-clad it really is. If you have seen it, please comment on the details.

    According to the latest EADA report, UT's revenue for 2011-2012 was $163,295,114. UT could get by pretty easily with the approximately $30,000,000/yr they'd lose if they chose to leave the Big 12. Not so much for the other nine teams. Then again, with $163,000,000 in revenue, I'm not really sure why UT would want to leave.
    But with a grant of rights it isn't necessarily money. It's the right to televise Texas's home games. If the ACC were okay with the ND/Texas game being televised by the Big12 for a few years then I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem for them to leave.



  13. #58
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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonehomer View Post
    But with a grant of rights it isn't necessarily money. It's the right to televise Texas's home games. If the ACC were okay with the ND/Texas game being televised by the Big12 for a few years then I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem for them to leave.
    Exactly; why would a conference add Texas if that conference wouldn't collect any revenue from broadcasting UT games? I suppose, in theory, the Big 12 could sell the rights to the poaching conference, but I don't see how it would be worthwhile for another conference to add Texas before the GOR expiration.



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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckd4735 View Post
    I have not seen it, but its concept seems pretty simple to me, and I don't think it would be anywhere near easy to get out of, at least not as easy as it is to get out of the buyout clauses.
    Legally, I would agree that the GOR is probably pretty difficult to get out of. However, I think a more pragmatic question is for which rights the GOR has been granted, becasue this would determine whether a team could still make some money from TV if they walked away from the Big 12.

    For example, does the GOR cover every single game for every sport, or just some games from some sports? Is it just for Tier 1 and Tier 2, or is Tier 3 included as well? Is it for just conference games, or does it include non-conference games as well? Does it cover home and away games, or just home games?


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    Re: Big 12 in talks with NCAA about playing a 13th game

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhtexas View Post
    Legally, I would agree that the GOR is probably pretty difficult to get out of. However, I think a more pragmatic question is for which rights the GOR has been granted, becasue this would determine whether a team could still make some money from TV if they walked away from the Big 12.

    For example, does the GOR cover every single game for every sport, or just some games from some sports? Is it just for Tier 1 and Tier 2, or is Tier 3 included as well? Is it for just conference games, or does it include non-conference games as well? Does it cover home and away games, or just home games?
    Agree with all of this, but my initial comment on the Grants of Rights was to SyracuseCyclone saying the ACC and Big 12 are equally vulnerable when it comes to expansion. I hope a majority of us can agree that statement is absurd.



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