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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by ribsnwhiskey View Post
    Apples and oranges.
    Come on man. Lets lay off the comments on Charlie Weis's body figure. Very uncalled for.



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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by ribsnwhiskey View Post
    Apples and oranges.
    Agreed. There is currently no (Tim Floyd) rule I am aware of that limits a team to replacing less than 30% of their BB scholarships in any one year. The 25 rule does this for football. If there was such a rule for BB, Iowa State would have an issue next year being unable to fill all of their schollys as they have 5 scholarship seniors leaving the program and have to replace 5/13 or almost 40% of their schollies.


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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by CYphyllis View Post
    The angle for JuCo's that only have 2 years to play would almost have to be instant PT, at least I'd think that is what it would be.
    To go along with this, I think it is safe to say that the team they will bring out onto the field next year will probably have a lot of different players than the one they fielded this year. You don't exactly bring in that many jucos expecting them all to develop over time and contribute in the future. With Jucos, there is no future, only now.


    Last edited by Triggermv; 12-18-2012 at 02:25 PM.

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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by Triggermv View Post
    To go along with this. I think it is safe to say that the team they will bring out onto the field next year will probably have a lot of different players than the one they fielded this year. You don't exactly bring in that many jucos expecting them all to develop over time and contribute in the future. With Jucos, there is no future, only now.
    Exactly. It's going to be a team with a lot of guys having little to no big time college football experience. A few guys? Not a problem. 16 of them? That is a train wreck waiting to happen. I'm no coach and far from being anything near an expert on building a program, but when it comes to football, I'd think you have to work from the ground up. Build up young talent with red shirting and multiple years of training before they see the field while filling in a gap here and there with a JuCo player.

    I'd go as far as saying that this is an incredibly selfish way to try to find instant, short term successes (i.e., actually winning a B12 game) with no regard for the long term health of the program by Weiss, which doesn't surprise me in the least.

    Before anyone points to Hoiberg's strategy and makes a snarky comment, realize that football and basketball are nothing alike in terms of building a program and can't even be compared.


    Last edited by CYphyllis; 12-18-2012 at 02:37 PM.

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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by CYphyllis View Post
    The angle for JuCo's that only have 2 years to play would almost have to be instant PT, at least I'd think that is what it would be.

    Yeah, I guess that is probably the fastest way to play in Big 12 games. Did they have this many good JUCO players back when KU was good?



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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by CYphyllis View Post
    Exactly. It's going to be a team with a lot of guys having little to no big time college football experience. A few guys? Not a problem. 16 of them? That is a train wreck waiting to happen. I'm no coach and far from being anything near an expert on building a program, but when it comes to football, I'd think you have to work from the ground up. Build up young talent with red shirting and multiple years of training before they see the field while filling in a gap here and there with a JuCo player.

    I'd go as far as saying that this is an incredibly selfish way to try to find instant, short term successes (i.e., actually winning a B12 game) with no regard for the long term health of the program by Weiss, which doesn't surprise me in the least.
    But your method would require Charlie to stay around for a minimum of 4-5 years to truly see its fruits rather than only 2-3 years, which is much too long for good old Charlie. Come on, Charlie is WWWAAAAYYY too good of a coach to stick around Kansas for a whopping 4 years right???? He's got so many people knocking on his door, he doesn't even have time to answer them all. KU should just be blessed to have him for 2 years even.



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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    He'll just have to get more jucos next year and slowly get more hs kids every year, just get used top seeing new faces every year like we do at Eeemauw.


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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by Triggermv View Post
    Come on man. Lets lay off the comments on Charlie Weis's body figure. Very uncalled for.
    I was just suggesting he eat more of those than chili dogs and milkshakes.



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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by ribsnwhiskey View Post
    I was just suggesting he eat more of those than chili dogs and milkshakes.
    Tuschee, my friend, tuschee.



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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by CYphyllis View Post
    Exactly. It's going to be a team with a lot of guys having little to no big time college football experience. A few guys? Not a problem. 16 of them? That is a train wreck waiting to happen. I'm no coach and far from being anything near an expert on building a program, but when it comes to football, I'd think you have to work from the ground up. Build up young talent with red shirting and multiple years of training before they see the field while filling in a gap here and there with a JuCo player.

    I'd go as far as saying that this is an incredibly selfish way to try to find instant, short term successes (i.e., actually winning a B12 game) with no regard for the long term health of the program by Weiss, which doesn't surprise me in the least.

    Before anyone points to Hoiberg's strategy and makes a snarky comment, realize that football and basketball are nothing alike in terms of building a program and can't even be compared.
    We can look directly at our own football program to see the opposite of Charlies approach.

    CPR and staff have done everything they can to rebuild depth by developing HS athletes. JuCos have been brought in to address specific needs, not to fill 16 roster spaces a year.



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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    CPR is obviously here for the long haul and was thinking ahead to years 4 and 5 when his HS recruits would be peaking. Weiss wants to win now at the expense of the future.


    Notice how well Ron Prince did at K-State following up for Skeletor after his first retirement. I believe Prince tried really hard to ween them off JuCo dependency and went heavy with HS players. That blew up in his face and Snyder went right back to farming JuCos when he returned. No one works the JuCos like Skeletor.



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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by cyhiphopp View Post
    CPR is obviously here for the long haul and was thinking ahead to years 4 and 5 when his HS recruits would be peaking. Weiss wants to win now at the expense of the future.


    Notice how well Ron Prince did at K-State following up for Skeletor after his first retirement. I believe Prince tried really hard to ween them off JuCo dependency and went heavy with HS players. That blew up in his face and Snyder went right back to farming JuCos when he returned. No one works the JuCos like Skeletor.
    Seeing stuff like this only makes me glad we have Paul Rhoads over the likes of Charlie Weis any day of the week. Based on ISU's history, I'm also at the point where I'd take a good long-term program building coach over a short-term flash in the pan coach who already says he is out the door, any day of the week. I'd still make that same choice if Charlie Weis proves to have a ton of success for a couple years before he leaves. I'm just at the point where I'm willing to make sacrifices for longer term success.



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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    I think it's the best thing Charlie could do. No way you can recruit very many good high school prospects when you haven't won a conference game in forever. He's done a great job of filling the holes which is pretty much every position except rb and qb (because he really likes his 2 hs recruits and the redshirt sophomore and the BYU transfer). If other schools didn't want these jucos and he's just filling the roster then we would be in big trouble. But on paper and film this is a great group of jucos and several are coming in for spring ball and a lot have 3 to play 2. Now if KU's signs 17 jucos next year we're in trouble but if it's a one year deal then I think it's a great move. I wouldn't mind signing around 8 every year, I've always felt KU didn't take advantage of the jucos in the past.



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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by tyler24 View Post
    He's not planning on being there long anyway. He planned on trying to get KU on the right track then handing it over pretty quickly to someone else.
    Where would Weis go after failing miserably at KU? To coach the Junior College that he's recruiting from?


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    Re: KU Going Juco Crrraaazzzzyyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by trajanJ View Post
    I think it's the best thing Charlie could do. No way you can recruit very many good high school prospects when you haven't won a conference game in forever. He's done a great job of filling the holes which is pretty much every position except rb and qb (because he really likes his 2 hs recruits and the redshirt sophomore and the BYU transfer). If other schools didn't want these jucos and he's just filling the roster then we would be in big trouble. But on paper and film this is a great group of jucos and several are coming in for spring ball and a lot have 3 to play 2. Now if KU's signs 17 jucos next year we're in trouble but if it's a one year deal then I think it's a great move. I wouldn't mind signing around 8 every year, I've always felt KU didn't take advantage of the jucos in the past.
    I'm sure most Kansas fans feel that way, it's called offseason optimism.

    From the outside looking in, it looks a lot like delayed program suicide. Football is a lot like business in the sense that short cuts rarely work out in the long term.



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