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  1. #16
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    Re: The charge calls

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  2. #17
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    Re: The charge calls

    Quote Originally Posted by pdxclone View Post
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    Troy Skinner and Jess Settles are jealous of that guy's flopping ability. That was a freaking legendary performance yesterday.



  3. #18
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    Re: The charge calls

    The officiating was terrible, probably the worst so far this year.

    I think part of the reasons for the charge calls though was that ISU was probably as agressive driving to the basket, or trying to get it into the post players as they have been this year. That's a good thing, but the players need to learn to avoid the charges. Another factor was that Drake was getting back on defense (by abandoning the offensive rebounding) and was usually set so there were few chances for fast break points for ISU.


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    Re: The charge calls

    The refs were consisting calling EVERYTHING on both teams... the game never really got into a flow and was tough to watch because I was just anticipating the next whistle. Really hate how the game was officiated yesterday. Seems to be the common theme with that group of officials.



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    Re: The charge calls

    If someone could cite the rulebook where someone has to be "set" to draw an offensive foul that'd be great.

    You can pick out people who don't understand basketball pretty quickly with 2 big things:
    a) There is no such thing as "over the back."
    b) There is no requirement that you have to be "set" to draw a charge.

    The first charge on Percy was an offensive foul. It should be called more when the shoulder is used to clear space. The second was solid acting. A couple were legitimate, a couple were bang-bang, and a couple were just terrible calls.



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    Re: The charge calls

    Calling Brent Blum...

    I would like to know your thoughts on the officiating yesterday as your insight is always welcomed on the board. I thought it was a brutal game to watch, regardless of fan base. I just assume the Refs got to open a present early before Christmas and wanted to try out their brand new whistles. Watching the stream, it appeared at times the ref behind the action"worst angle" would make the call...i.e. charging vs flop. I couldn't tell if it was Drake or Duke playing for the flops. I thought they were too active with the whistle both ways.

    Anyway, your thoughts would be great.

    Z


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    Re: The charge calls

    Quote Originally Posted by zach View Post
    Calling Brent Blum...

    I would like to know your thoughts on the officiating yesterday as your insight is always welcomed on the board. I thought it was a brutal game to watch, regardless of fan base. I just assume the Refs got to open a present early before Christmas and wanted to try out their brand new whistles. Watching the stream, it appeared at times the ref behind the action"worst angle" would make the call...i.e. charging vs flop. I couldn't tell if it was Drake or Duke playing for the flops. I thought they were too active with the whistle both ways.

    Anyway, your thoughts would be great.

    Z
    It would be good to hear his thoughts after tha game, although he pretty much made his feelings known on Twitter yesterday.....even before the game started.

    Brent Blum@brentblum Paul Janssen officiating Iowa State-Drake..not my fave.


    Brent Blum@brentblum
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  8. #23
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    Re: The charge calls

    Quote Originally Posted by HFCS View Post
    Officiating wasn't overly against ISU, but Niang's "charge" was the worst call of the game by a mile.

    He just completely schooled two Drake defenders, neither were set, the main contact was inside the area, Drake player falls down because he got killed. 3 point play turned into a charge. I don't know how players keep their cool when that happens, I'm sure I'd have went off.
    Did anyone else watching the video feed notice Niang mouthing "that's bulls***" over and over after that call? Surprised he didn't get T'd up.



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    Re: The charge calls

    Quote Originally Posted by zach View Post
    Calling Brent Blum...

    I would like to know your thoughts on the officiating yesterday as your insight is always welcomed on the board. I thought it was a brutal game to watch, regardless of fan base. I just assume the Refs got to open a present early before Christmas and wanted to try out their brand new whistles. Watching the stream, it appeared at times the ref behind the action"worst angle" would make the call...i.e. charging vs flop. I couldn't tell if it was Drake or Duke playing for the flops. I thought they were too active with the whistle both ways.

    Anyway, your thoughts would be great.

    Z
    In college basketball, the trail official has the call if the start of the player's move was in his zone. For example, if McGee takes a pass from Lucious on the wing and drives baseline, the referee who should've moved to between the free throw line extended and top of the key (with respect to being perpendicular to the sideline) should have the call, not the guy under the hoop.



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    Re: The charge calls

    Quote Originally Posted by IcSyU View Post
    If someone could cite the rulebook where someone has to be "set" to draw an offensive foul that'd be great.

    You can pick out people who don't understand basketball pretty quickly with 2 big things:
    a) There is no such thing as "over the back."
    b) There is no requirement that you have to be "set" to draw a charge.

    The first charge on Percy was an offensive foul. It should be called more when the shoulder is used to clear space. The second was solid acting. A couple were legitimate, a couple were bang-bang, and a couple were just terrible calls.
    I will agree with your points that you numbered, but I take a little issue with the claim that people who complain about "over the back" don't understand basketball. I have been coaching for 20 years and still use the term - not as a complaint to the refs. I use it because it has been a designated term that all fan bases and players seem to use to explain the act of the opposing player's illegal pushing, shoving, extracurricular activity to get the ball. I explain to my team what I mean by "over the back," but it seems that it is part of the terminology that has permeated the basketball culture. Again, I agree with you that there is NO over-the-back per se, but it doesn't mean that the people using the term don't understand the game.


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  11. #26
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    Re: The charge calls

    Quote Originally Posted by IcSyU View Post
    If someone could cite the rulebook where someone has to be "set" to draw an offensive foul that'd be great.

    You can pick out people who don't understand basketball pretty quickly with 2 big things:
    a) There is no such thing as "over the back."
    b) There is no requirement that you have to be "set" to draw a charge.

    The first charge on Percy was an offensive foul. It should be called more when the shoulder is used to clear space. The second was solid acting. A couple were legitimate, a couple were bang-bang, and a couple were just terrible calls.
    Again, that's completely ludicris to say someone doesn't understand basketball because they don't use the rulebook terminology when describing a foul. "Over the back" is a common term that describes the action of the foul being committed. Everyone knows what that means because its been ingraned in everybodies minds as being called that by announcers. So, why would anyone want to use the rulebook terminology to describe something when everyone understands what "over the back" means. To use that would just require more explanation. Get over it buddy.



  12. #27
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    Re: The charge calls

    Quote Originally Posted by ruxCYtable View Post
    I didn't get to watch the game so I can't comment on the officiating in general. But in regards to your comment, this absolutely does not matter. The myth that a defender has to be perfectly set to draw a charge has been put forth by TV commentators who have never read a rule book. There is nothing -- repeat: nothing -- in the rule book that says a defender has to be set to draw a charge. As long as the defender is not moving toward the offensive player, torso-to-torso contact is a charge.
    I agree with you, ruxCYtable, that moving one's feet does not preclude one from taking a charge. But the guidelines the NCAA published for referees in March 2012 included this section:

    Before the offensive player (with the ball) becomes airborne, the defender must have two feet on the floor, be facing the opponent and be stationary to draw a charge. Otherwise it should be a blocking foul.

    Secondary defenders (help defenders) moving forward or to the side are also in violation, and these should be blocking fouls.

    Contact that is “through the chest” is not de facto proof of a charge. The rule in its entirety must be considered before determining a foul.

    In some cases, it appears that a defender is being rewarded solely for being outside the arc, without considering the other aspects of the rules.
    http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-...ourt-surfacing


    Last edited by andymhallman; 12-16-2012 at 03:39 PM. Reason: fix link

  13. #28
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    Re: The charge calls

    By the way, there is a silver lining to all the charge calls yesterday: Iowa State is driving to the basket. They have relied so much on the three in the early going I was afraid they wouldn't be able to score at all if they went cold from beyond the arc. It's nice to know they can score inside even when they're not hot from outside.



  14. #29
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    Re: The charge calls

    Quote Originally Posted by Ficklone02 View Post
    Again, that's completely ludicris to say someone doesn't understand basketball because they don't use the rulebook terminology when describing a foul. "Over the back" is a common term that describes the action of the foul being committed. Everyone knows what that means because its been ingraned in everybodies minds as being called that by announcers. So, why would anyone want to use the rulebook terminology to describe something when everyone understands what "over the back" means. To use that would just require more explanation. Get over it buddy.
    Like I said, nearly any time you hear the phrase "over the back" used, it is likely the person has no idea what is going on. I can potentially legally go over your back and get a rebound if I'm taller than you are. That's not a foul.

    Most of the time when some idiot is yelling for over the back, they're looking for a push call from the referee. That requires exactly no explanation to anyone familiar with the English language.

    Same with the guy who thinks that it can't be a charge if the recipient's feet are moving. As long as you've established initial legal guarding position, you're good to go so long as you stay in legal guarding position. That's one of my biggest pet peeves watching college basketball. Guy jumps on a pump fake, stays vertical, gets jumped into, gets whistled for a blocking foul. No referee with a brain in their head is calling a blocking foul there. A good ref is going to let play continue.

    Same story with one of Percy's? fouls yesterday. He jumped straight up with his arms extended straight above his head after establishing legal guarding position and the guard jumped into him under the bucket. Percy gets called for the body foul. Absolute garbage.



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    Re: The charge calls

    Quote Originally Posted by HFCS View Post
    Officiating wasn't overly against ISU, but Niang's "charge" was the worst call of the game by a mile.

    He just completely schooled two Drake defenders, neither were set, the main contact was inside the area, Drake player falls down because he got killed. 3 point play turned into a charge. I don't know how players keep their cool when that happens, I'm sure I'd have went off.
    The call happened right in front me and it was bad.



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