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    New Climate Change Report

    The UN panel on climate change issued it's final report. I found the following quote particularly interesting:

    “If there’s no action before 2012, that’s too late,” said Rajendra Pachauri, a scientist and economist who heads the IPCC. “What we do in the next two to three years will determine our future. This is the defining moment.”

    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/17/sc...limate.html?hp

    This is an incredibly bold statement from Dr. Pachauri.



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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    Wasn't there a recent report that stated the data collected in these studies is faulty? Wouldn't that also make their conclusions faulty? If so, this is purely a political issue. (read: attempts to throttle US production/economy)

    I think the report I speak of was done by NASA.



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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    Quote Originally Posted by herbicide View Post
    Wasn't there a recent report that stated the data collected in these studies is faulty? Wouldn't that also make their conclusions faulty? If so, this is purely a political issue. (read: attempts to throttle US production/economy)

    I think the report I speak of was done by NASA.
    I’m not familiar with such a report. You may be thinking of the personal opinions of Dr. Michael Griffin, who is the NASA Administrator (head honcho):

    "I have no doubt that global -- that a trend of global warming exists. I am not sure that it is fair to say that it is a problem we must wrestle with. To assume that it is a problem is to assume that the state of earth's climate today is the optimal climate, the best climate that we could have or ever have had and that we need to take steps to make sure that it doesn't change.

    First of all, I don't think it's within the power of human beings to assure that the climate does not change, as millions of years of history have shown, and second of all, I guess I would ask which human beings - where and when - are to be accorded the privilege of deciding that this particular climate that we have right here today, right now is the best climate for all other human beings. I think that's a rather arrogant position for people to take."

    NASA Administrator Not Sure Global Warming A Problem

    As far as I understand his views, they are very similar to mine.



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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    The report I am thinking about has to do with how the temperature data was recorded.

    It mentioned that the methods were faulty, because the recordings were made in large growing cities, which affects the readings because the larger a city gets, the temperature naturally goes up with the increased concrete, buildings, activity, etc.

    This report was posted here, I did a quick search but couldn't find it.

    Edit:

    I have the same views. I cannot see how this short of time can be enough data to support any long term trends, and the other variable is we do not have any way of knowing how much is to blame by human activity and how much is just a natural cycle.



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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    Quote Originally Posted by herbicide View Post
    The report I am thinking about has to do with how the temperature data was recorded.

    It mentioned that the methods were faulty, because the recordings were made in large growing cities, which affects the readings because the larger a city gets, the temperature naturally goes up with the increased concrete, buildings, activity, etc.

    This report was posted here, I did a quick search but couldn't find it.

    Edit:

    I have the same views. I cannot see how this short of time can be enough data to support any long term trends, and the other variable is we do not have any way of knowing how much is to blame by human activity and how much is just a natural cycle.
    There are studies out there that do not really balance the effects of urbanization. Anyone who has gone from the middle of a city, out into the country will notice a difference in temperature. The other factor is that temperatures really started to spike as the Soviet Union desolved. Weather reporting stations there went off line due to lack of funding, and obviously, without that data, an artificial spike ensued.

    Any cure that has a real effect on global warming is not cheap. Not even close. We're talking about .1 degree per trillion dollars spent.



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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    Numerous opinions have been written that while an increase in global temperatures may lead to increases in drought and heat related deaths, those numbers would be more than offset by the people who would be saved by it.



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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    Quote Originally Posted by herbicide View Post
    The report I am thinking about has to do with how the temperature data was recorded.

    It mentioned that the methods were faulty, because the recordings were made in large growing cities, which affects the readings because the larger a city gets, the temperature naturally goes up with the increased concrete, buildings, activity, etc.

    This report was posted here, I did a quick search but couldn't find it.

    Edit:

    I have the same views. I cannot see how this short of time can be enough data to support any long term trends, and the other variable is we do not have any way of knowing how much is to blame by human activity and how much is just a natural cycle.
    OK, I’m continuing to guess, but rather than a NASA report, I think you might be talking about the mistakes that Steve McIntyre recently found in some of the temperature data collected by NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies from individual weather stations. This data has been used to support the existence of a warming trend, and McIntyre found definite errors, so kudos to Mr. McIntyre. Much was made out of the fact that the data corrections implied that 1998 was no longer the warmest year on record in the US (I guess 1934 is now considered warmest, and 1998 second warmest). On the other hand, my impression is that these errors are within the range that should have been expected before Mr. McIntyre’s discovery.



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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    The report projects that a lot of scary stuff will happen if the rapid growth in green house gases is not reversed.

    If the conclusions are accepted we are doomed since the largest carbon emitters, the United States and China, have yet to get on board the global warming bandwagon.



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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskaguy View Post
    The report projects that a lot of scary stuff will happen if the rapid growth in green house gases is not reversed.

    If the conclusions are accepted we are doomed since the largest carbon emitters, the United States and China, have yet to get on board the global warming bandwagon.
    Yep, doomed. By 2050, some islands will be under water. Of course, they are 8" out of the water right now, but still



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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    I read the preliminary summary report, and the UN spokesman's statement appears to contradict what I've read.

    The preliminary summary appears to say that Human Caused Global Warming is real, and not reversible/cannot be affected positively by anything we do. Now how does soaking the US and China for Trillions fit in, there???

    But if someone from the UN says it's true....


    A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.


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  11. #11
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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    Quote Originally Posted by iceclone View Post
    OK, I’m continuing to guess, but rather than a NASA report, I think you might be talking about the mistakes that Steve McIntyre recently found in some of the temperature data collected by NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies from individual weather stations. This data has been used to support the existence of a warming trend, and McIntyre found definite errors, so kudos to Mr. McIntyre. Much was made out of the fact that the data corrections implied that 1998 was no longer the warmest year on record in the US (I guess 1934 is now considered warmest, and 1998 second warmest). On the other hand, my impression is that these errors are within the range that should have been expected before Mr. McIntyre’s discovery.
    Thats the one I remember, about the 1934 thing.



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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    I think those Polynesian islands better get worried or start building some levees. 10,000 years ago we ghad an ice age. Now we have an AntiIce Age. Better hot than cold.


    CFH HMagic bball season next year.
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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    The UN again:


    CFH HMagic bball season next year.
    Let my Fred's Four Horsemen ride: Georges, Hogue, Nader, and McKay.

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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    Numerous opinions have been written that while an increase in global temperatures may lead to increases in drought and heat related deaths, those numbers would be more than offset by the people who would be saved by it.
    I am not sure I believe that but Bjorn Lomborg sure makes a pursuasive argument for that proposition.

    Link: Chill out. - washingtonpost.com



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    Re: New Climate Change Report

    Is Bjorn Lomborg a lackey for GWB?

    I quote Mr. Lomborg....

    "The way to achieve this is to dramatically increase spending on research and development of low-carbon energy. Ideally, every nation should commit to spending 0.05 percent of its gross domestic product exploring non-carbon-emitting energy technologies, be they wind, wave or solar power, or capturing CO2emissions from power plants. This spending could add up to about $25 billion per year but would still be seven times cheaper than the Kyoto Protocol and would increase global R&D tenfold. All nations would be involved, yet the richer ones would pay the larger share."

    Now compare the above with the policy of GWB...

    When it comes to limiting greenhouse gas emissions, GWB has always seemed to worry less about polluting the skies and more about polluting the economy through overly restrictive regulation. In particular, GWB has adamantly resisted economy-wide limits on greenhouse gases like the ones imposed in recent years in Europe under the 1997 Kyoto Protocol. The administration also questions how effective the Kyoto limits are, and notes that it’s hard to get developing countries to join in the effort to reduce emissions if it means reducing economic growth too. The Bush White House prefers to focus on investments in new technologies to cut down on greenhouse-gas emissions.

    Source: November 16, 2007 Wall Street Journal.

    Now I just need to determine how much GWB plans on investing in the new technologies that cut down on greenhouse-gas emissions. I know that the administration is spending that amount on ethanol but I don't think that ethanol should be considered a technology twhich cuts down on greenhouse-gas emissions.


    Last edited by alaskaguy; 11-19-2007 at 12:01 AM.

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