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  1. #91
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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Go2Guy View Post
    So back to my original question, should collegiate WBB coaches and assistants get paid that much when the programs lose money?
    I edited my post to answer that question right as you asked it again. The programs will lose money. The better programs will lose less (unless spending is out of control). The market dictates the salaries. You don't spend as much, you get a team like Missouri which has expenses virtually as high as ISU ($2.4m) but likely takes in far less revenue. The exact amount is hidden through the magic of accounting: Missouri's WBB and other non-revenue sports happen to have the exact same revenue as expenses in the report.



  2. #92
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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by mred View Post
    The market dictates the salaries. You don't spend as much, you get a team like Missouri which has expenses virtually as high as ISU ($2.4m) but likely takes in far less revenue.
    Very reasonable point! But regarding the market dictating salaries; it seems like a very narrow market. I'm not so sure a certain coach can have many prospective schools with exact matching offers....., but all they need is one.



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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Go2Guy View Post
    So back to my original question, should collegiate WBB coaches and assistants get paid that much when the programs lose money?
    Perhaps if you gut the budget the product would still be good enough to lose less money, but how much less? I suppose you can only lose what you spend, but there are externalities too...Imo WBB is mainstream enough that the positive advertising and perception that comes with being a top-25 program makes it worth the loss mred posted. Same with VBB. Anecdotally speaking, it is a good way to get the young female demographic to ultimately become ISU MBB and FB fans.


    Last edited by swarthmoreCY; 12-20-2012 at 02:17 PM.

  4. #94
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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    Perhaps if you gut the budget the product would still be good enough to lose less money, but how much less? .
    Another way of asking is, if you square up the budget with less in coaching salaries, does the product still get results? Is there an abundance of good coaching candidates willing to take the job for less? I dunno; just asking an honest question, but my perception seems to think otherwise.

    What if Iowa told Bluder her package and the assistants will be reduced to 80% of current. so she decides to leave; how many schools would be willing to set up and offer the same package - I seriously don't know; but I don't think it would be many.



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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by mred View Post


    WBB expenses: $2.8m; revenue: $0.85m; NET: ($1.95m)
    Thanks for the info. Yikes, if that was occasional every 3rd year, or so, maybe tolerable....but consistent over 10-years becomes a hemorrhage.



  6. #96
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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Go2Guy View Post
    What if Iowa told Bluder her package and the assistants will be reduced to 80% of current. so she decides to leave; how many schools would be willing to set up and offer the same package - I seriously don't know; but I don't think it would be many.
    The market is there. The supply/demand curve would drive the salaries down if it weren't.

    Indiana got Curt Miller from Bowling Green for $275K. That's a good coach for a relatively cheap salary. Indiana spent $2.7M on WBB last year but only brought in $124K. I'm not sure what they were paying their old coach, but she certainly wasn't worth it.



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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Go2Guy View Post
    Thanks for the info. Yikes, if that was occasional every 3rd year, or so, maybe tolerable....but consistent over 10-years becomes a hemorrhage.
    All sports except MBB and FB lose money. Those sports subsidize the rest. That's how it is.

    Most schools are much worse. Indiana has a perpetually crappy team but still spent $2.7 M (on $0.12M revenue). Texas somehow managed to lose $3.5 M on WBB.



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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    Minn, Ill, TX, Neb, Wisc, KSU, etc., play in great VB venues
    You must have a different definition of "great".

    The Pavilion (Minn, 1950), Coliseum (Neb, 1926), Fieldhouse (Wisc, 1930), and Ahearn (KSU, 1950) are old buildings that were sitting empty after other sports got newer digs.



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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Nebraska now has a retrofitted Devaney Center don't they?



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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Another thread hijacked. Interesting discussion, but it deserves its own thread, especially if you find yourself saying, "back to my original question," but it isn't the original question.

    + Post New Thread



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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by theshadow View Post
    You must have a different definition of "great".

    The Pavilion (Minn, 1950), Coliseum (Neb, 1926), Fieldhouse (Wisc, 1930), and Ahearn (KSU, 1950) are old buildings that were sitting empty after other sports got newer digs.
    Add Illinois and Huff Hall to that list. The men's basketball team played there before Assembly Hall was built. It's got character, but it needs some air conditioning.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Walton
    Think Oscar Wilde when he said, "every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." But also think Neil Young: the fork in the road, light a candle. Instead of cursing the darkness, let's light a candle for where we're going. This was fantastic for the world. We are better people for having been here. It was absolutely incredible. I'm inspired. I don't know when I'll ever sleep again.

  12. #102
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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by theshadow View Post
    You must have a different definition of "great".

    The Pavilion (Minn, 1950), Coliseum (Neb, 1926), Fieldhouse (Wisc, 1930), and Ahearn (KSU, 1950) are old buildings that were sitting empty after other sports got newer digs.
    And you need to get out more. FYI: CJL has described all of the above venues, refurbished and remodeled for VB, as "outstanding" or "great." Go on, just ask her. Great atmosphere, great home-court advantages for the home team.
    I can tell you don't follow NCAA volleyball at all...



  13. #103
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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by klamath632 View Post
    I stated an opinion. You confirmed the opinion. What was silly about the post?

    Going a little further, let's talk about the business decisions. The athletic department's goal is to make money, but it is bound by regulation-- namely, Title IX. For every scholarship in a men's sport, there needs to be a certain number of scholarship's in women's sports. Therefore, you've got a requirement to invest in women's sports.

    If you take for granted the notion that women's sports are sinkholes, then the best you can do is to minimize the loss. But you should never completely give up on making a profit. The situation in ISU volleyball is actually one of the best chances you have at ISU to make a return on the investment. ISU has a high-profile coach who has taken the program to a high level in a short amount of time. Fans are taking note and are investing themselves into the program. In order to continue the success, additional investment is needed to 1. retain the coach, and 2. get her the talent needed to compete for conference and national championships. With success on the court, additional revenue opportunities arise.

    The alternative, of course, is to not invest in the program at all, watch your brand recognition circle the drain, and continue to lose money while receiving zero benefits from the program at all. Your choice.
    One doesn't need to build a monument to title 9 to realize success in woman's athletics.

    You ask why i think your respnse is silly: your silly post made a foolish assumption which you elegantly ariculate in your nexr post. It is impossible to eliminate all sports as compliance with federal law is critical, so your assumption is either **** poor or silly.


    As far as depth goes though, the combination of White, Woodbury, Olaseni, Basabe, and Uthoff is much better than Niang, Ejim, Edozie, Gibson. Not because of the top 2, but because of the next 2 or 3. -DeanVogs

  14. #104
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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    To be fair, there are several very high-level VB programs that also play in their school's basketball arena, on the basketball court, with VB court lines taped on, like ISU does: Stanford, UCLA, Washington, USC to name four.
    That being said, all of the local VB teams that we measure ourselves by: Minn, Ill, TX, Neb, Wisc, KSU, etc., play in great VB venues on dedicated VB courts...
    I would throw Oklahoma in there too as a solid VB venue with McCasland Field House.



  15. #105
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    Re: Will Wisconsin come after CJL?

    Quote Originally Posted by IcSyU View Post
    Nebraska now has a retrofitted Devaney Center don't they?
    They are moving after basketball season is over. The DC will be one of if not the best VB facility in the country.

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