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  1. #46
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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    Quote Originally Posted by FootballinTexas View Post
    This is right on!


    The major issue that I have with the coaching is the lack of run game. The run sets up the pass. Consistency starts with the run game. You look at teams with 100+ yard rushers every week. They will accept those 3-4 yard runs for 25+ plays then the RB will pop one for 60 (see OSU vs ISU Randle had 25 carries for 151 and 65 came on 1 play). And, it's not that we can't run, it's the fact that we don't run. We'll get 4 on a run then throw it 2 times then punt. CPR has got to make sure Mess sets the run-pass %'s at 60-40 run. We have 4 players averaging over 4.4 YPC (DV - 6.3, JW - 5.1, JB - 4.6, SJ - 4.4). However, we've thrown it a lot more than we've ran it. I know we throw a lot of screens, but I would rather see us run the ball, use the clock, and use our base offense more efficiently. The screens have not been very effective against the good teams. I've heard people say that you have to throw the ball alot to win his high-powered conference. Here 's what the top conference teams have done. I compiled all of the team passes but only runs for the top four rushers. So, the rushes would have an even higher percentage

    Team Passes Runs % run
    KSU 216 382 64
    UT 289 369 56
    OU 358 259 42
    OSU 348 310 47

    ISU 362 214 37

    I know some will say we've had to throw alot because we've been behind. But, if you get the run game going to start the game, you tend to stay alive in those games because you shorten the game and save your defense.
    We have been playing from behind in the last 2 games which forces us to pass, pass, pass..... I do agree, we need to run it way more than we do, dink and dunk is the only way we can be sucessful again high scoring quick striking offenses. I know that KU is not like any other team in the Big 12 mostly because they will run it all game long and don't have any passing attack to counter that. We need some productive running game to win here, and stick with that game plan.... If we would have kept running last week instead of giving into the 'need to score now, falling behind view' we would have been just as competative as we were. Give James, Shontrell, Woody and Nealy their touches we should have over 200+ when the dust settles and a 'W', this game plan will definitely work......



  2. #47
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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    We've played from behind, but we give up on the run well before we're in a catch-up situation.


    Since we are an elite team now, let's go get that One Cyclone Moment.
    Make this one for the ages!




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  3. #48
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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneErik View Post
    We've played from behind, but we give up on the run well before we're in a catch-up situation.
    I couldn't agree more. I think we saw this against Kansas State. Which really made no sense in my mind, especially when Barnett was in at quarterback.



  4. #49
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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    Quote Originally Posted by jburke View Post
    i agree, and could also see a position change in his future. I know he is not overly fast, but I see him at WR. Sure handed and can take a hit. Similar story to Tiller, QB during one of the biggest wins in Iowa State football history, than moved to WR.....
    I'm not sure how great of a receiver he'd be. I feel like Tiller is more physically gifted. I do think they need to get him on the field though. Kid has done too much for ISU to not be out on the field in some way the next couple years. Maybe a back up receiver and then also gets on as a holder.



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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    I'm just hoping we get a relatively healthy Lenz back for the last two games to give the offense a boost.



  6. #51
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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    I think you have to look at the coaches at some point. Other teams seem to be making things work, sometimes very quickly into coaches tenures. We're in year 4, & no better off then when we started, at least offensively.



  7. #52
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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    Quote Originally Posted by jburke View Post
    We have been playing from behind in the last 2 games which forces us to pass, pass, pass..... I do agree, we need to run it way more than we do, dink and dunk is the only way we can be sucessful again high scoring quick striking offenses. I know that KU is not like any other team in the Big 12 mostly because they will run it all game long and don't have any passing attack to counter that. We need some productive running game to win here, and stick with that game plan.... If we would have kept running last week instead of giving into the 'need to score now, falling behind view' we would have been just as competative as we were. Give James, Shontrell, Woody and Nealy their touches we should have over 200+ when the dust settles and a 'W', this game plan will definitely work......
    Against OU

    Series 1 - P,R,P punt
    Series 2 - R,P,R,P,P,R,R,P punt
    Series 3 - P,R,P,P
    OU scores 7-0
    Series 4 - P,R,R,R,P punt
    Givens INT ball on OU 15
    Series 5 - P,P,P FG (7-3)
    Givens INT ball on OU 49
    Series 6 - P,R,P,R,P,P,P FG (7-6)
    OU Scores 14-6
    Series 7 - P,P halftime

    1st half Run/Pass: 31 Plays - 11 runs or 35% We are only behind 14-6 at the half but we were 65% pass. Just imagine if we would have really tried to establish the run when were still in the game.



  8. #53
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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    Quote Originally Posted by MIClone View Post
    This is my observation as well. JB runs the offense better overall--especially the running game. But he falls apart in the must pass situations.

    But the flashes of greatness comment is also applicable to SJ. People always bash me for it and its far from what I would consider ideal, but given the fact that they are better at different things, I would situationally play JB and SJ.
    Yeah, in my mind I think situationally playing both QB's would be best as well. But, then I wonder if that would hurt the QB's psyche at this point. I'm not sure, but I guess if I had to pick I would say that keeping the QB controversy dead for the rest of the season is the best move. Right now coach Rhodes has chosen Steele, and it's Steele that we've got. Regardless of whether or not it was the right choice, at this point changing QB's would be the most hurtful of all to team productivity... I think.


    Last edited by khardbored; 11-12-2012 at 12:37 PM.

  9. #54
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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    Quote Originally Posted by FootballinTexas View Post
    Against OU

    Series 1 - P,R,P punt
    Series 2 - R,P,R,P,P,R,R,P punt
    Series 3 - P,R,P,P
    OU scores 7-0
    Series 4 - P,R,R,R,P punt
    Givens INT ball on OU 15
    Series 5 - P,P,P FG (7-3)
    Givens INT ball on OU 49
    Series 6 - P,R,P,R,P,P,P FG (7-6)
    OU Scores 14-6
    Series 7 - P,P halftime

    1st half Run/Pass: 31 Plays - 11 runs or 35% We are only behind 14-6 at the half but we were 65% pass. Just imagine if we would have really tried to establish the run when were still in the game.
    It was 21-6, you forget the Stiles fade and interference no call......my bad u r right 14-6...


    Last edited by jburke; 11-12-2012 at 12:37 PM.

  10. #55
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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    The one thing that I think has not been mentioned enough is the WRs helping the QB. They don't seem to be in sync well enough to break off plays when the QB gets pressured. They often don't fight for position or go hard enough after poorly thrown balls. Sometimes, it seems like they have a practice mindset where they can just line up again if a ball is thrown badly. Or they are so quick to put their hands out to get a flag. I want to see each WR go hard after each ball that is thrown to them.



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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycsk View Post
    The one thing that I think has not been mentioned enough is the WRs helping the QB. They don't seem to be in sync well enough to break off plays when the QB gets pressured. They often don't fight for position or go hard enough after poorly thrown balls. Sometimes, it seems like they have a practice mindset where they can just line up again if a ball is thrown badly. Or they are so quick to put their hands out to get a flag. I want to see each WR go hard after each ball that is thrown to them.
    Jantz overthew someone going across the field by about 6 inches Saturday and I wasn't even that mad about the throw (please don't throw the ball back across the field into traffic!). I was livid that Jantz was running to the left side of the field and whoever the ******* receiver was thought it was a good idea to take his route to the right side of the field. When the quarterback is scrambling or in trouble, run back TO the ball. That's what you're taught on day 1 of being a receiver.



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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    Hopefully our WR's that have to step up next year can catch better than the current crop, otherwise it doesn't matter who's at QB.


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  13. #58
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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    Quote Originally Posted by IcSyU View Post
    Jantz overthew someone going across the field by about 6 inches Saturday and I wasn't even that mad about the throw (please don't throw the ball back across the field into traffic!). I was livid that Jantz was running to the left side of the field and whoever the ******* receiver was thought it was a good idea to take his route to the right side of the field. When the quarterback is scrambling or in trouble, run back TO the ball. That's what you're taught on day 1 of being a receiver.

    Yea, I've been seeing things like this all season. Our QBs need the WRs to help them, not just run patterns and catch good throws when they are open.

    In the spirit of optimism, there have been some notable exceptions. Brun has gone hard after a few. One of West's TD catches wasn't even through to him, but he made a very aggressive move to make the catch (IIRC, the intended receiver would have been OOB because of not paying attention to the back of the endzone and therefore couldn't have made the completion). Young has gone down into a slide to make a few catches.



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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    Quote Originally Posted by Luth4Cy View Post
    I'm not sure how great of a receiver he'd be. I feel like Tiller is more physically gifted. I do think they need to get him on the field though. Kid has done too much for ISU to not be out on the field in some way the next couple years. Maybe a back up receiver and then also gets on as a holder.

    So, we are downgrading a QB who has won four Big 12 games against top 25 teams to a back up reciever/holder??? Are you kidding me??? Barnett is a QB, and a winner, I am not giving up on him as a sophomore. I don't think he has been give a fair shot, he started 3 games this year against REALLY good Big 12 defenses. Two of these games against top 3 defenses in the league. Jared Barnett has us in a position to upset the #1 BCS team in the nation in the 4th quarter. I just don't understand how people are deriving there opinions on this kid. We have 2 big 12 wins this year, and if you look at the competition, Barnett's win was WAY more impressive.



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    Re: A True Playmaking QB???

    Quote Originally Posted by bdnichols2000 View Post
    So, we are downgrading a QB who has won four Big 12 games against top 25 teams to a back up reciever/holder??? Are you kidding me??? Barnett is a QB, and a winner, I am not giving up on him as a sophomore. I don't think he has been give a fair shot, he started 3 games this year against REALLY good Big 12 defenses. Two of these games against top 3 defenses in the league. Jared Barnett has us in a position to upset the #1 BCS team in the nation in the 4th quarter. I just don't understand how people are deriving there opinions on this kid. We have 2 big 12 wins this year, and if you look at the competition, Barnett's win was WAY more impressive.
    Barnett didn't have us in a position to do anything, the defense did. Jantz didn't beat Baylor as much as the defense contained Baylor. Jantz has proven he's going to take you for a wild ride that's going to have really nice highs and beat your head against the wall lows. Barnett has proven he's going to be a consistently below average quarterback. It comes down to if you want consistently below average play or very nice quarterback play one drive and absolutely atrocious quarterback play the next drive.



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