Calling all Xs and Os gurus
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    Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    Wartknight and co. I was both amazed and frightened by this Grantland piece that CW linked to in his OSU preview. I've heard and read of these offensive concepts before, but Grantland did a great job of breaking it down. It was truly eye-opening.

    My question: How widespread is this offensive approach in college football currently? How many offensive coordinators have a similar approach? Do we have similar concepts in our offensive package that aren't quite as obvious?

    It's hard not to look at this and wonder how far behind the curve we might be in terms of the future of offense in college football. Color me fascinated...



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by psychlone99 View Post
    Wartknight and co. I was both amazed and frightened by this Grantland piece that CW linked to in his OSU preview. I've heard and read of these offensive concepts before, but Grantland did a great job of breaking it down. It was truly eye-opening.

    My question: How widespread is this offensive approach in college football currently? How many offensive coordinators have a similar approach? Do we have similar concepts in our offensive package that aren't quite as obvious?

    It's hard not to look at this and wonder how far behind the curve we might be in terms of the future of offense in college football. Color me fascinated...
    Not a guru by any means, but I do believe we utilize at least one of these package plays (and probably more that I don't recognize). That short throw Barnett made to Brun a few times last game is one of these type of plays.



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    I think when we move to that up tempo offense, I bet we are only running 1-2 package plays. I'm not a guru but when we are able to get a first down we usually move into the no huddle, up tempo offense. If you watch, the plays we execute are always fast strike plays. I'm not a guru but I bet those are package plays.



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    The problem is that without either really studying the film or having inside knowledge, you'll never know if we run the packaged plays or not. Watching at game speed either at the game or on TV, without being having that background knowledge or being able to watch a single play over and over, it's too hard to tell. The fact that this stuff is in a widely read webpage like Grantland though means it's not new anymore. Coaches talk a LOT in the offseason, and new wrinkles/ideas/philosophies make the rounds quickly. There are no secrets in football.


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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by megamanxzero35 View Post
    I think when we move to that up tempo offense, I bet we are only running 1-2 package plays. I'm not a guru but when we are able to get a first down we usually move into the no huddle, up tempo offense. If you watch, the plays we execute are always fast strike plays. I'm not a guru but I bet those are package plays.
    Yeah, this. It's not that they always run a simple zone read after a first down -- it's just what was given by the defense and it's not being executed that well.



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    The zone read is one thing. Not that it's easy to execute effectively- it clearly isn't. But I'm curious to know if we have anything like the stick-draw or stick-screen package plays that are highlighted in the Grantland piece. To me, that seems like a whole different level of offensive complexity (or simplicity, depending on your perspective).



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    Xs and Os or Jim's and joes. Any scheme takes great players. Leech is the best example of scheme working with different players. Okie state is close. We'll find out Saturday if they can plug and play inexperience and produce based on scheme against the best defense they have faced since the last meeting in Ames.



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by psychlone99 View Post
    The zone read is one thing. Not that it's easy to execute effectively- it clearly isn't. But I'm curious to know if we have anything like the stick-draw or stick-screen package plays that are highlighted in the Grantland piece. To me, that seems like a whole different level of offensive complexity (or simplicity, depending on your perspective).
    I am pretty sure we have run a few of these. I think there was a screen against TCU to Young that was one of these. It's getting to be pretty widespread at this point.


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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    Does anyone know how many zone read plays, if any, Okie State runs? I don't remember Weeden ever running on us so I would be lead to assume that they usually run the run pass option play that Grantland described, as an alternative to our zone read heavy scheme.



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by psychlone99 View Post
    The zone read is one thing. Not that it's easy to execute effectively- it clearly isn't. But I'm curious to know if we have anything like the stick-draw or stick-screen package plays that are highlighted in the Grantland piece. To me, that seems like a whole different level of offensive complexity (or simplicity, depending on your perspective).
    This is not scary compared to the zone read in its heyday. At least in my opinion.



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    I don't believe we run exactly the stick-draw type of concept but we have a number of plays that are runs with checks to screens or quick hitters depending how a few members of the defense line up/move at the snap.

    Stick-draw is not nearly as simple as that article makes it out to be and Weeden made it look deadly with the quick reads and athletes around him. There were multiple times in last year's game where he made a bad read because either Klein or Knott would bluff their decision. That's from a 28 year old two year starter. From what I have read the freshmen quarterbacks for OSU have both struggled with this at times this year.



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by psychlone99 View Post
    Wartknight and co. I was both amazed and frightened by this Grantland piece that CW linked to in his OSU preview. I've heard and read of these offensive concepts before, but Grantland did a great job of breaking it down. It was truly eye-opening.

    My question: How widespread is this offensive approach in college football currently? How many offensive coordinators have a similar approach? Do we have similar concepts in our offensive package that aren't quite as obvious?

    It's hard not to look at this and wonder how far behind the curve we might be in terms of the future of offense in college football. Color me fascinated...
    I wouldn't be so worried about ISU being behind the curve, if I were you. I don't think this concept is as revolutionary as the article seems to suggest. I'm sure Iowa State has incorporated some of the same elements, that work within our system.



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by d4nim4l View Post
    I don't believe we run exactly the stick-draw type of concept but we have a number of plays that are runs with checks to screens or quick hitters depending how a few members of the defense line up/move at the snap.

    Stick-draw is not nearly as simple as that article makes it out to be and Weeden made it look deadly with the quick reads and athletes around him. There were multiple times in last year's game where he made a bad read because either Klein or Knott would bluff their decision. That's from a 28 year old two year starter. From what I have read the freshmen quarterbacks for OSU have both struggled with this at times this year.
    I've noticed AJ is pretty good at conceiling what he's doing....which several times has turned into pick 6's for him. Which I'm guessing comes from the small coaching points from Wally that make it successfull. Nothing an offense does like that scares me as long we have Wally...as long as he's around I'm only worried about getting outtalented.



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    And we have Wally.



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    Re: Calling all Xs and Os gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Not a guru by any means, but I do believe we utilize at least one of these package plays (and probably more that I don't recognize). That short throw Barnett made to Brun a few times last game is one of these type of plays.
    I would agree with this. It seems like we pass if the lb scrapes else we run the zone read. Though we must block the DL because there is no way we expect our QB to read both.

    To me this seems like a more effective play than OSU draw/pass as a lb could take a few steps to coverage but still make a play on the run. I suppose this would be most effective if the lb blitzes, but we dont blitz much so maybe that is why it wasn't as effective on us?



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