Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 32
  1. #1
    Pro
    Points: 101,665, Level: 99
    Level completed: 31%, Points required for next Level: 1,385
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    Your first GroupVeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience Points
    khaal53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,456
    Points
    101,665
    Level
    99
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 52
    Given: 0

    Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    After the huge disparity in time of possession in the ISU & KSU game I finally attempted to tackle the time of possession issue. I don't think I solved any ancient riddles but I think there is some clarity added to the discussion of when and how it is important and how it applies to ISU this year.

    Check it out...comments and questions welcomed, as usual.

    Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns | News | Football | Cyclone Fanatic




    I'm on Twitter: @khaal53

  2. #2
    All-Star
    Points: 48,408, Level: 68
    Level completed: 5%, Points required for next Level: 1,342
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    FootballinTexas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,258
    Points
    48,408
    Level
    68
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 4
    Given: 0

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Excellent write up! I really enjoyed it. I would like to comment and say against TCU we scored 3 offensive TD's in a 11 min span. Last week we scored 3 offensive TD's in 10 min span. So that skews the data a little. 6 TD's in a 21 min span. A little over 3 mins a possession. The overall looks bad especially with the Tech and Iowa games in there but we are scoring on many of our possessions....just not using much time to do so.



  3. #3
    Addict
    Points: 108,035, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 18.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,493
    Points
    108,035
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 164
    Given: 154

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    While I do believe the offensive side has a ton of work left to do, I think they are getting a little too much of the blame for the big disparity in t.o.p from Saturday. The defense once again did a very good job of keeping the score under control, but KSU had some VERY long drives that ate up huge chunks of clock. A couple were 6-7 minutes even and that takes a ton of opportunities away from the offense.


    Exaggeration is a BILLION times worse than understating.

  4. #4
    Starter
    Points: 14,571, Level: 36
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 279
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    SCarolinaCy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    783
    Points
    14,571
    Level
    36
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 28
    Given: 46

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Quote Originally Posted by khaal53 View Post
    After the huge disparity in time of possession in the ISU & KSU game I finally attempted to tackle the time of possession issue. I don't think I solved any ancient riddles but I think there is some clarity added to the discussion of when and how it is important and how it applies to ISU this year.

    Check it out...comments and questions welcomed, as usual.

    Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns | News | Football | Cyclone Fanatic
    Three things that skew the numbers--

    OPposing team short field due to poor kick off coverage.
    Allowing opposing teams to score just before the half.
    ISU's jet? game.



  5. #5
    Addict
    Points: 65,711, Level: 79
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 739
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    CyinCo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Clive, IA
    Posts
    5,433
    Points
    65,711
    Level
    79
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 36
    Given: 0

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Quote Originally Posted by khaal53 View Post
    After the huge disparity in time of possession in the ISU & KSU game I finally attempted to tackle the time of possession issue. I don't think I solved any ancient riddles but I think there is some clarity added to the discussion of when and how it is important and how it applies to ISU this year.

    Check it out...comments and questions welcomed, as usual.

    Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns | News | Football | Cyclone Fanatic
    This only bolsters how GOOD our defense has been. We are winning games and are in games simply because our defense keeps us there. Our offense simply needs to try not to lose the game. Most other teams in the Big 12 are reverse of that methodology.


    ISU Grad 1997.
    ISU Fan for Life.

    Not in CO anymore but I'm not changing my name :)

  6. #6
    Pro
    Points: 47,550, Level: 67
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 800
    Overall activity: 24.0%
    Achievements:
    25000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Daserop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    The Bebop
    Posts
    2,772
    Points
    47,550
    Level
    67
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 141
    Given: 279

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Your comments

    "Cyclone possession on average this season has lasted just 1:51...9th shortest average possession length in the NCAA". and "...scoring efficiency, I used points scored per possession as the primary measurement. In that category, the Cyclones are scoring just 1.78 points per possession which comes in as the 90th best scoring offense in the NCAA".

    Combine these two states and its no wonder why KSU had the ball for over half the game. Those two stats alone show why I don't have any faith in this offense.



  7. #7
    Speechless
    Points: 398,493, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 68.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialOverdriveVeteran50000 Experience Points
    Wesley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Omaha
    Posts
    58,772
    Points
    398,493
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 550
    Given: 349

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Too bad this offense does not have a big time receiver that would cause the defenses to adjust.

    I am surprised at how poor our running game looks. If we needed two yards, I am not sure we could get it without more innovation.

    That said, an improved selection of plays would help. Handing off on first down up the middle does not cut it when you get stuffed. I know it is a simple play to call in the jet, but it is not working. I would rather throw the bomb on first down instead of gaining one yard on a run. Not much difference between 2nd and ten or 2nd and nine.


    Let my Fred's Posse Ride: Georges, Naz, Hogue, Bryce, Nader, Monte, Matt, and McKay.

  8. #8
    All-Star
    Points: 38,088, Level: 60
    Level completed: 20%, Points required for next Level: 962
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    25000 Experience PointsVeteran
    andybernard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,513
    Points
    38,088
    Level
    60
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 133
    Given: 13

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Quote Originally Posted by Daserop View Post
    Your comments

    "Cyclone possession on average this season has lasted just 1:51...9th shortest average possession length in the NCAA". and "...scoring efficiency, I used points scored per possession as the primary measurement. In that category, the Cyclones are scoring just 1.78 points per possession which comes in as the 90th best scoring offense in the NCAA".

    Combine these two states and its no wonder why KSU had the ball for over half the game. Those two stats alone show why I don't have any faith in this offense.
    I think the fact that our defense couldn't stop KSU on a 3rd down had more to do with why they had the ball for over half the game. Kstates first drive of every single quarter lasted 6:42, 6:40, 6:51, and 8:10. That's 28:23 already and has nothing to do with the offense.



  9. #9
    Pro
    Points: 61,371, Level: 76
    Level completed: 83%, Points required for next Level: 279
    Overall activity: 7.0%
    Achievements:
    VeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience Points
    besserheimerphat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Mount Vernon, WA
    Posts
    2,596
    Points
    61,371
    Level
    76
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 92
    Given: 145

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Quote Originally Posted by SCarolinaCy View Post
    Three things that skew the numbers--

    OPposing team short field due to poor kick off coverage.
    Allowing opposing teams to score just before the half.
    ISU's jet? game.
    The average net kickoff this year for ISU has been 39.1 yards. Add that to the 35 yard line where the ball is kicked, and that means on average our opponents are starting on the "74.1 yard line," or their own 26. It's not that short of a field. Anyway, the opponents having a shorter field should reduce their TOP on scoring possessions, which would swing the results in our favor.

    I'm not sure how opponents scoring right before half "skews" the data, unless you mean that it prevents us from getting an additional possession per half. That kind of thing balances out over the course of a few games, especially when you consider the couple of times we've just kneeled it out to go to halftime. That adds anywhere from 30 - 60 seconds to our TOP.

    Regardless, all of these differences are accounted for when you use efficiency metrics like points per play. That's basically normalizing all of the differences in tempo so that it's reasonable to compare jet teams to slow-it-down teams. Just because the numbers don't agree with "conventional wisdom," does not mean they are wrong.


    You can spend a lot of time and money picking out the perfect floral bouquet for your date ... but you're probably better off checking if you have bad breath and taking the porn out of the glove compartment.

    The moral: you gain more by not being stupid, than you do by being smart. Smart gets neutralized by other smart people. Stupid does not.

  10. #10
    All-Star
    Points: 33,847, Level: 56
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 403
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    cloneteach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,263
    Points
    33,847
    Level
    56
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 27
    Given: 6

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Quote Originally Posted by besserheimerphat View Post
    The average net kickoff this year for ISU has been 39.1 yards. Add that to the 35 yard line where the ball is kicked, and that means on average our opponents are starting on the "74.1 yard line," or their own 26. It's not that short of a field. Anyway, the opponents having a shorter field should reduce their TOP on scoring possessions, which would swing the results in our favor.

    I'm not sure how opponents scoring right before half "skews" the data, unless you mean that it prevents us from getting an additional possession per half. That kind of thing balances out over the course of a few games, especially when you consider the couple of times we've just kneeled it out to go to halftime. That adds anywhere from 30 - 60 seconds to our TOP.

    Regardless, all of these differences are accounted for when you use efficiency metrics like points per play. That's basically normalizing all of the differences in tempo so that it's reasonable to compare jet teams to slow-it-down teams. Just because the numbers don't agree with "conventional wisdom," does not mean they are wrong.

    I THINK he is saying that they score right before half, leaving us with under a minute to put points up or it goes as a possession netting zero points whereas a lot of times we were just taking a knee with that possession.


    Visit our blog for all things ISU...

    www.ourtwosense.blogspot.com

  11. #11
    Addict
    Points: 240,179, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 13.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience Points1 year registeredSocial
    klamath632's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,939
    Points
    240,179
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 461
    Given: 337

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    ISU has 36 punts this season.
    The next closest Big 12 team has 21.



  12. #12
    Hall-Of-Famer
    Points: 67,614, Level: 80
    Level completed: 73%, Points required for next Level: 436
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    d4nim4l's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    West Des Moines, IA
    Posts
    4,789
    Points
    67,614
    Level
    80
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 11
    Given: 3

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Quote Originally Posted by FootballinTexas View Post
    Excellent write up! I really enjoyed it. I would like to comment and say against TCU we scored 3 offensive TD's in a 11 min span. Last week we scored 3 offensive TD's in 10 min span. So that skews the data a little. 6 TD's in a 21 min span. A little over 3 mins a possession. The overall looks bad especially with the Tech and Iowa games in there but we are scoring on many of our possessions....just not using much time to do so.
    What do you mean by span? I look at span as time on the game clock and we certainly did not score three TDs vs K-State in only 10 minutes of game clock.

    If you mean it as we scored three TDs in only ten minutes of possession, then yes, that is fair.



    Wide Right & Natty Lite - Loyal Sons, Forever True. With beer!

  13. #13
    All-Star
    Points: 33,485, Level: 56
    Level completed: 37%, Points required for next Level: 765
    Overall activity: 10.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    Cyclophile1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Overland Park, KS
    Posts
    1,633
    Points
    33,485
    Level
    56
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 71
    Given: 10

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Quote Originally Posted by FootballinTexas View Post
    Excellent write up! I really enjoyed it. I would like to comment and say against TCU we scored 3 offensive TD's in a 11 min span. Last week we scored 3 offensive TD's in 10 min span. So that skews the data a little. 6 TD's in a 21 min span. A little over 3 mins a possession. The overall looks bad especially with the Tech and Iowa games in there but we are scoring on many of our possessions....just not using much time to do so.

    I like this kind of analysis. It appears that we have had a disproportionate number of possessions in the poles of the 'success continuum', meaning we have had more quick strike TDs and more 3-and-outs than would be considered typical for ISU. Kirk's numbers bear that out.

    Overall, we're not very efficient at gaining yards and converting 3rd downs. We have also used a fair amount of jet tempo, so that hurts us as well.



  14. #14
    Addict
    Points: 164,501, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 7.0%
    Achievements:
    50000 Experience PointsCreated Album picturesVeteran
    CtownCyclone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    8,740
    Points
    164,501
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 101
    Given: 86

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Bottom line: we can't score points and we can't sustain drives.



  15. #15
    Pro
    Points: 101,665, Level: 99
    Level completed: 31%, Points required for next Level: 1,385
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    Your first GroupVeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience Points
    khaal53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,456
    Points
    101,665
    Level
    99
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 52
    Given: 0

    Re: Time, Tempo, & Touchdowns

    Thanks for the feedback...some follow up comments:

    Iowa State is not scoring on "many of their possessions". ISU scores either a FG or a TD on 26.4% of possessions, that is 99th in the NCAA and 9th in the Big 12.

    Offensive performance being in the "poles" seems to be a fair comment. Many times it is either 0-1 first downs or a long sustained drive where tempo and success can be established.

    Regarding field position, I've been searching for those numbers for the better part of the last 18 months. If anyone knows where average field position can be found I'd be eternally grateful, seriously.




    I'm on Twitter: @khaal53

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • TV: FOX
  • Iowa State vs. Baylor
  • September 27, 2014
  • 07:20 PM