KSU X&O's thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26
  1. #1
    Addict
    Points: 108,604, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,586
    Points
    108,604
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 200
    Given: 202

    KSU X&O's thread

    Kind of a "why what went right went right and why what went wrong went wrong" from the KSU game.
    Probably will focus more on the run game because the game broadcast doesn't allow a lot of great looks downfield.
    Lot of debate I noticed on the boards about playcalling vs execution.
    Keep in mind football is a numbers game. Whoever has more people at the point of attack usually wins that particular play. The spread adds a new dimension to that- There will be one unblocked guy (if schemed correctly) at the point of attack, and we are banking on our guy being more athletic than their guy.
    KSU had a very good defensive scheme, especially vs ISU's 2x2 set. They were able to keep 2 safeties high, and give pretty much a 4-1 look in the box, but the 2 OLB's set up just outside the tackles so they could play both the run and the short pass.
    ISU took advantage of this by "featuring" for the first time this year a run/pass option to the #2 WR where the QB is reading the OLB. If he bites on the run, JB throws the quick pass, if he drops into coverage, it is a give. First play of the game was this. Great read, great throw, WR slipped and fell.
    From an x's and o's standpoint, this is the perfect way to attack this Defense
    ISU's 3x1 set gave us a better run look because KSU still stayed 2 safeties high, so instead of going 7 on 7 in the box, we were able to go 8 on 7.
    On the frontside read, It appears Barnett is a little "keep happy". WR's have outside leverage to block the give to SJ. Even with that, the play is blocked for a nice gain, but barnett trips going through hole. Play got 4 but was blocked for more.
    First third down of game, Lenz is open, Barnett with a bad throw into dirt. Once gain, great decision, needs a better throw. Felt like that was the theme of the game for JB.
    Pistol look in 2nd series. The scheme is there for a nice look to run weak. 3 on 3 in the box with a QB power look. Schematic-wise, the play is there. Brown scrapes over the top and makes a great hustle play from the backside LB spot for 3. He's a great LB.
    Appears we like the 3x1 look, and numbers wise it is a great look for us. Zone read, this time reading strong side DE. KSU stacked their Outside LB to toy with run game, but not stunting from it so far.
    The read is a give. RT takes a horrible angle on the stacked LB who forces the play a lot wider than it is designed and its a short gain. If that guy is blocked, its SJ on a safety at 12 yards.
    The motion we used to get SJ out of backfield gave us a huge numbers advantage, but he was a checkdown throw. If the WR's are blocking for him out there, that is a huge gain.
    Tried some more running from 2x2 set and the read man made the play. Very easily could blame the qb, but upon closer inspection, the MLB scraped off the back of the center who never saw him and forced the play back into the read man. Not a good formation to run standard zone read from with the overhang LB taking away the QB. We tried this later as well which had me scratching my head.
    More run/pass zone read to Brun. great looking play. ISU in 3x1 to the boundary which I think would have been a great run look all game as well.
    now reading BSLB in the zone read. Barnett for 9 on a great read. Would have been for more but the TE in the slot ran straight down the field and never got a hand on the guy he was supposed to be blocking who made the play.
    On the 3rd and 1 from the 20. Barnett keeps it and we have a first down on the frontside read. Brown chased SJ down from the inside on a great defensive play. I can't tell who Barnett was reading. Sometimes the D just makes play. Situational thing though. know the situation and if you can get the first, get the first.
    That's all for 1st quarter. Not nearly as upset with the playcalling as I was during the game.


    Exaggeration is a BILLION times worse than understating.

  2. #2
    Speechless
    Points: 336,692, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 6.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    bawbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Posts
    19,444
    Points
    336,692
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,173
    Given: 2,046

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    that is an awesome analysis.



  3. #3
    Addict
    Points: 108,604, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,586
    Points
    108,604
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 200
    Given: 202

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    Was wrong and its still 1st q. 4th and 1. In a similar set that we finished the OSU game with last year. Wing look with woody in backfield and there is no read. Right up the chute for Woody for 10. Great surge and Brun did an excellent job scooping off the back side. Brown paid for his aggressiveness there by way overrunning the play creating a very nice cutback lane.
    Interesting look on first and goal. Similar formation with back offset the other way. Sweep to left with Nealy with OL and Wing pulling to the right. Great way to take advantage of well-coached teams. KSU Lb's went with the pullers and we got 5. Some better blocks by WR's and its a TD. Well-conceived playcall.
    2nd and goal from 5 and we throw in a wrinkle to frontside read. Looks like frontside read, but now have pullers coming back the other way for a counter. Everything goes well except the backside TE barely gets a hand on the DE and he comes around him and makes play for 2 yard gain.
    Touchdown to SJ out of backfield and it looks like we probably got away with offensive PI on Lenz for a little pick route. KSU in man-to-man and there is no way the LB can catch up to SJ out of backfield.


    Exaggeration is a BILLION times worse than understating.

  4. #4
    Speechless
    Points: 440,282, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 7.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassVeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ames
    Posts
    24,033
    Points
    440,282
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 284
    Given: 32

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    The day they start calling the pick plays in football will be a cold day in hell.

    I wish someone would explain to our running backs that when it's 2nd or 3rd and a yard, gaining a yard and a half is ok. Instead, we often try to stretch it further for 4 or 5 and end up either 3rd or 4th and 1. Just please take the first down. Yeah a 1.5 yard run looks like crap on the stat sheet, but a first down is awfully nice.



  5. #5
    All-Star
    Points: 26,389, Level: 49
    Level completed: 84%, Points required for next Level: 161
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    iowa_wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ames
    Posts
    1,309
    Points
    26,389
    Level
    49
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 56
    Given: 26

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    Arthur Brown makes play calling against KSU a real challenge. He does the little things that put him in position to make plays. He is cat quick and although not flashy is always a pain in the arse to the opposition. Mess called a good game for the most part. Sometimes Murphy' Law prevails.



  6. #6
    Speechless
    Points: 288,652, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 17.0%
    Achievements:
    Social50000 Experience PointsVeteran
    VeloClone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Brooklyn Park, MN
    Posts
    15,484
    Points
    288,652
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,203
    Given: 3,796

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    Quote Originally Posted by IcSyU View Post
    The day they start calling the pick plays in football will be a cold day in hell.

    I wish someone would explain to our running backs that when it's 2nd or 3rd and a yard, gaining a yard and a half is ok. Instead, we often try to stretch it further for 4 or 5 and end up either 3rd or 4th and 1. Just please take the first down. Yeah a 1.5 yard run looks like crap on the stat sheet, but a first down is awfully nice.
    If they do start calling pick plays I'm sure that ISU will be one of the first teams to draw the hanky.

    I agree with your assessment on just getting the first down. Our QB's could take some of this advice as well. I hate seeing a QB juke about trying to make a quicker player miss rather than taking the first down yardage that is there. (SJ, I'm looking at you.) Not to mention when a QB stops in the open field every defensive player out there is gunning to make a big hit on him. (JB, I'm looking at you, here.)


    "There are five real good recruits in the state. We got three of them. One couldn’t get into school, and the other went to (the University of) Iowa...which is about the same thing." - Coach Johnny Orr

  7. #7
    Speechless
    Points: 408,298, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 38.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialOverdriveVeteran50000 Experience Points
    Wesley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Omaha
    Posts
    61,141
    Points
    408,298
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 885
    Given: 624

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    Playcalling still seemed too conservative. 230 yards tells the story.


    Let my Fred's Posse Ride: Georges, Naz, Hogue, Bryce, Nader, Monte, Matt, and McKay.

  8. #8
    Speechless
    Points: 348,400, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 11.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialYour first GroupRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points
    Tre4ISU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Estherville
    Posts
    19,619
    Points
    348,400
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 746
    Given: 93

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    Quote Originally Posted by IcSyU View Post
    The day they start calling the pick plays in football will be a cold day in hell.

    I wish someone would explain to our running backs that when it's 2nd or 3rd and a yard, gaining a yard and a half is ok. Instead, we often try to stretch it further for 4 or 5 and end up either 3rd or 4th and 1. Just please take the first down. Yeah a 1.5 yard run looks like crap on the stat sheet, but a first down is awfully nice.
    I'm looking at you Shontrelle.


    It's all snark from here on out

  9. #9
    All-Star
    Points: 45,486, Level: 65
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 64
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    BBHMagic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,793
    Points
    45,486
    Level
    65
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 208
    Given: 391

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    Playcalling still seemed too conservative. 230 yards tells the story.
    Did you not just read that plenty of plays were there for the taking if we just executed? Yes 230 yards tells the story, but its of poor execution.


    Cy has balls of steel.

  10. #10
    Addict
    Points: 108,604, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,586
    Points
    108,604
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 200
    Given: 202

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    Playcalling still seemed too conservative. 230 yards tells the story.
    They don't just call a game conservatively. KSU sat in a 2 high shell the entire game. Unlike TTU which was daring us to throw on them vs man coverage, KSU sat back in coverage and was going to allow the short stuff, and risky throws to the corner, betting on the fact that we would get stuck on 3rd and long because of their physical front 7. They were right. We didn't excecute the easy stuff which would have made the hard stuff more open as the game went on.


    Exaggeration is a BILLION times worse than understating.

  11. #11
    Starter
    Points: 44,816, Level: 65
    Level completed: 44%, Points required for next Level: 734
    Overall activity: 13.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassVeteran25000 Experience Points
    psychlone99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Ankeny
    Posts
    916
    Points
    44,816
    Level
    65
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 29
    Given: 34

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    I just want to go on record and say that I want more threads like this on Fanatic. This is great analysis and insight, and it really puts things in perspective for the average fan. Nothing is as simple as it appears.

    Keep it coming, wartknight!



  12. #12
    Addict
    Points: 108,604, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,586
    Points
    108,604
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 200
    Given: 202

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    Quote Originally Posted by psychlone99 View Post
    I just want to go on record and say that I want more threads like this on Fanatic. This is great analysis and insight, and it really puts things in perspective for the average fan. Nothing is as simple as it appears.

    Keep it coming, wartknight!
    I have an unhealthy obsession with football if you ask my wife. Thankful she is very understanding to let me coach throughout the week and then park my butt in front of the TV or in JTS on Saturdays. I think when my 3rd daughter was born, she became a little more understanding about letting me get around some more testosterone.
    I'll try to get the first half done tonight.
    On a side note, I'm not sure I had watched a game where Eric Crouch was the analyst and I think he was great. I usually cringe when watching a lot of games, but I thought most of what he said was right on. Hurts me to say that about a former bugeater.


    Exaggeration is a BILLION times worse than understating.

  13. #13
    All-Star
    Points: 34,936, Level: 57
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 514
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Social25000 Experience PointsVeteran
    driegner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,134
    Points
    34,936
    Level
    57
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 3

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wartknight View Post
    Was wrong and its still 1st q. 4th and 1. In a similar set that we finished the OSU game with last year. Wing look with woody in backfield and there is no read. Right up the chute for Woody for 10. Great surge and Brun did an excellent job scooping off the back side. Brown paid for his aggressiveness there by way overrunning the play creating a very nice cutback lane.
    Interesting look on first and goal. Similar formation with back offset the other way. Sweep to left with Nealy with OL and Wing pulling to the right. Great way to take advantage of well-coached teams. KSU Lb's went with the pullers and we got 5. Some better blocks by WR's and its a TD. Well-conceived playcall.
    2nd and goal from 5 and we throw in a wrinkle to frontside read. Looks like frontside read, but now have pullers coming back the other way for a counter. Everything goes well except the backside TE barely gets a hand on the DE and he comes around him and makes play for 2 yard gain.
    Touchdown to SJ out of backfield and it looks like we probably got away with offensive PI on Lenz for a little pick route. KSU in man-to-man and there is no way the LB can catch up to SJ out of backfield.
    Wasn't the LOS the 4, and therefore this contact occurred inside 5 yards? I saw that too, and the ref looked RIGHT at him, so I figured it was a no-call for a reason. Does that 5-yard contact rule apply in the endzone?


    EDIT: Jargon question for you wart: is a 3x1 and 4x1 set the #lineman x #LB's in the box? Also, if we come out in a 2x2 set is that 2TE's and 2 backs?

    Last question: If we come out in a 2TE set, is a linebacker lined up on the TE still considered "in the box?" Does "the box" end at the tackle or the TE, or is it all semantics?


    Last edited by driegner; 10-15-2012 at 01:41 PM.

  14. #14
    All-Star
    Points: 34,268, Level: 57
    Level completed: 2%, Points required for next Level: 1,182
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    ShopTalk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,610
    Points
    34,268
    Level
    57
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 49
    Given: 75

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    It was obvious to me as it has been all season that execution and going with the right player on zone-read runs has been off. Not to mention passing accuracy. If the O calms down and gets in the zone, we're going to see some offense. I'm hoping for that against a weaker D in OSU this week.

    KSU and TT really exposed the relative weaknesses of the O due to them both having very good and very well coached D's. TT's D was a huge athletic and size upgrade for them this year to last.

    And KSU's O is better than last year. The O-line in particular. Klein is even probably slightly better in his reads/runs although that's a push - he was great last year too

    Wartnight, great armchair coaching breakdown.



  15. #15
    Addict
    Points: 108,604, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,586
    Points
    108,604
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 200
    Given: 202

    Re: KSU X&O's thread

    Once the ball is in the air, technically there is not supposed to be any contact.

    2x2 is number of WR's on each side. 3x1 equals 3 WR's 1 way, 1 the other.
    The "box" moves a little depending on who you talk to. I consider it any DL or LB's that are lined up on "attached" linemen (that includes a TE or even a wing if they are lined up in the traditional TE spot)

    Quote Originally Posted by driegner View Post
    Wasn't the LOS the 4, and therefore this contact occurred inside 5 yards? I saw that too, and the ref looked RIGHT at him, so I figured it was a no-call for a reason. Does that 5-yard contact rule apply in the endzone?



    EDIT: Jargon question for you wart: is a 3x1 and 4x1 set the #lineman x #LB's in the box? Also, if we come out in a 2x2 set is that 2TE's and 2 backs?

    Last question: If we come out in a 2TE set, is a linebacker lined up on the TE still considered "in the box?" Does "the box" end at the tackle or the TE, or is it all semantics?


    Exaggeration is a BILLION times worse than understating.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • TV: Cyclones.tv
  • HOOPS: Iowa State vs. Mississippi Valley State
  • December 31, 2014
  • 06:00 PM