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  1. #1
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    Our base offense

    I have read a lot of people complaining about our offense last night and rightfully so. But many have said it is the fault of the scheme and that we need to ditch the spread. But to what??

    Thought maybe I would interject some facts into the debate...

    Year Pts/game Rush yds/game Pass yds/game Total/game
    2011 22.7 174.2 212.3 386.5
    2010 21.7 143.2 174.2 317.4
    2009 20.5 180 184.7 364.7
    2008 25.3 138.4 248.4 386.8
    2007 18.2 123.7 203.2 326.9
    2006 18.8 101.8 216.1 317.8
    2005 28.2 110.7 239.7 350.3
    2004 20.5 141.8 187.3 329.1
    2003 14.4 120.7 176.8 297.5
    2002 28.9 145 236.3 381.3

    Didnt include 2012 because we havent hit conference play in earnest. Those stats cover 3 coaching staffs. Don't see a lot of difference between our production with Rhoads and our production with anyone else in the past 10 years.

    Maybe the issue is not the O but the athletes we have running it? Sorry to say but seems like we can only get a certain caliber of athlete here.



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    Re: Our base offense

    good stuff, that says either no system works or the coaches we get are unable to find one that works. IF the 2nd is the case that speaks of complete incompetence or inability to try something else.

    Sorry Im just frustrated right now and sick of seeing the same **** for the last 2 decades. Every time I think we may have turned the corner.....

    hopefully im eating my words later in the year.


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  3. #3
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    Re: Our base offense

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    I have read a lot of people complaining about our offense last night and rightfully so. But many have said it is the fault of the scheme and that we need to ditch the spread. But to what??

    Thought maybe I would interject some facts into the debate...

    Year Pts/game Rush yds/game Pass yds/game Total/game
    2011 22.7 174.2 212.3 386.5
    2010 21.7 143.2 174.2 317.4
    2009 20.5 180 184.7 364.7
    2008 25.3 138.4 248.4 386.8
    2007 18.2 123.7 203.2 326.9
    2006 18.8 101.8 216.1 317.8
    2005 28.2 110.7 239.7 350.3
    2004 20.5 141.8 187.3 329.1
    2003 14.4 120.7 176.8 297.5
    2002 28.9 145 236.3 381.3

    Didnt include 2012 because we havent hit conference play in earnest. Those stats cover 3 coaching staffs. Don't see a lot of difference between our production with Rhoads and our production with anyone else in the past 10 years.

    Maybe the issue is not the O but the athletes we have running it? Sorry to say but seems like we can only get a certain caliber of athlete here.
    These stats suggest little in support of our current scheme.

    -Futility of previous staffs/schemes does not legitimize the current one.
    -Even without the previous statement, the best Mensa offense was our 4th best in the past 10 years.

    -Efficiency is more important than points/gm. I'd rather be ranked highly in points per possession than points/game. How about yards per attempt? I think it would serve ISU well to shorten the game.
    -Along those lines, those stats do little to explain talent utilization (or conversely, hiding weaknesses). In comparison to the other seven years, the past three years ISU has had some pretty good, road-grading type Big-12 olinemen. Equivalent talent at the skill positions. More possessions per game due to style of play in current Big 12. Yet stats indicate average at best in comparisons to other ISU offenses.



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    Re: Our base offense

    I'd say that our current scheme can be successful. I'm not sure that we have found the quarterback for it yet. I understand Rhoad's has had four different QB's start games. In all reality Arnaud and Tiller didn't have the other athletes for the system, and Steele may not be right for the system, and Barnett simply may not be a real quality Big 12 QB. Keep in mind too that now we are developing an identity for the offense, under Chizik and McCarney I never felt like we really had a true identity, which I've always believes holds back progress.



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    Re: Our base offense

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    These stats suggest little in support of our current scheme.

    -Futility of previous staffs/schemes does not legitimize the current one.
    -Even without the previous statement, the best Mensa offense was our 4th best in the past 10 years.

    -Efficiency is more important than points/gm. I'd rather be ranked highly in points per possession than points/game. How about yards per attempt? I think it would serve ISU well to shorten the game.
    -Along those lines, those stats do little to explain talent utilization (or conversely, hiding weaknesses). In comparison to the other seven years, the past three years ISU has had some pretty good, road-grading type Big-12 olinemen. Equivalent talent at the skill positions. More possessions per game due to style of play in current Big 12. Yet stats indicate average at best in comparisons to other ISU offenses.
    This X 1000.

    Everyone is so obsessed with ISU having some kind of high powered, big-time offense. That is so ridiculous, I don't know why anyone thinks it is advisable for Iowa State to try and beat the top Big XII teams at their own game. It plays directly into their hands.



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    Re: Our base offense

    With this defense you dont need a high powered offense, you need to be consistent at putting points on the board and owning time of possession. Its obvious we just do not have the athletes for a spread offense, but you have to put points on the board consistently. Limiting turnovers is also key (obviously.)



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    Re: Our base offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Luth4Cy View Post
    I'd say that our current scheme can be successful. I'm not sure that we have found the quarterback for it yet. I understand Rhoad's has had four different QB's start games.
    Could be, but at some degree, if getting players the players you need for just for your system to be average is difficult, perhaps you are not using the best system. I bet Herman's offense would do okay with Luck at QB and a few NFL picks on the line and at WR. The past three years we have had Olines that were well suited for some conventional running and some pretty good running backs (every year 4.7 ypc and above). We have not had very accurate QB's and we lack play makers at WR.

    We have actually done a decent job of being good enough at something (running the ball, mostly on the zone-read), to force the defense to have to take something away. The issue with this offense (especially with the QB's we have had) is forcing the defense to take away our strength does not really leave them vulnerable elsewhere (mitigate our weakness athletically in the passing game). Part of it is talent at QB and WR. However, we should see more plays made by the offenses due to the defenses being fooled, slipping, etc


    Last edited by swarthmoreCY; 09-30-2012 at 02:09 PM.

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    Re: Our base offense

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    We have actually done a decent job of being good enough at something (running the ball, mostly on the zone-read), to force the defense to have to take something away. The issue with this offense (especially with the QB's we have had) is forcing the defense to take away our strength does not really leave them vulnerable elsewhere (mitigate our weakness athletically in the passing game). Part of it is talent at QB and WR. However, we should see more plays made by the offenses due to the defenses being fooled, slipping, etc
    I think we can be more productive when a team takes the zone read away, but we have to start to take shots down field then. I'm not talking about into the middle of three guys that result in an interception. I'm talking about throwing it up when Bundrage or Tiller have one on ones, Steele seems afraid to do this. Barnett was a little more aggressive and maybe even better at this than Steele.



  9. #9
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    Re: Our base offense

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    These stats suggest little in support of our current scheme.

    -Futility of previous staffs/schemes does not legitimize the current one.
    -Even without the previous statement, the best Mensa offense was our 4th best in the past 10 years.

    -Efficiency is more important than points/gm. I'd rather be ranked highly in points per possession than points/game. How about yards per attempt? I think it would serve ISU well to shorten the game.
    -Along those lines, those stats do little to explain talent utilization (or conversely, hiding weaknesses). In comparison to the other seven years, the past three years ISU has had some pretty good, road-grading type Big-12 olinemen. Equivalent talent at the skill positions. More possessions per game due to style of play in current Big 12. Yet stats indicate average at best in comparisons to other ISU offenses.
    No but there comes a point when you say that we have run I formation, one back sets, even the wishbone under Walden, and the stats look about similar. So what is left?

    You need some basis for comparison.



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    Re: Our base offense

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    These stats suggest little in support of our current scheme.

    -Futility of previous staffs/schemes does not legitimize the current one.
    -Even without the previous statement, the best Mensa offense was our 4th best in the past 10 years.

    -Efficiency is more important than points/gm. I'd rather be ranked highly in points per possession than points/game. How about yards per attempt? I think it would serve ISU well to shorten the game.
    -Along those lines, those stats do little to explain talent utilization (or conversely, hiding weaknesses). In comparison to the other seven years, the past three years ISU has had some pretty good, road-grading type Big-12 olinemen. Equivalent talent at the skill positions. More possessions per game due to style of play in current Big 12. Yet stats indicate average at best in comparisons to other ISU offenses.
    i remember a post earlier this fall that looked at our linemen and they are lighter now than they were under Chiz or Mac. We don't have road-graders. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of perception and faulty memory.



  11. #11
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    Re: Our base offense

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    i remember a post earlier this fall that looked at our linemen and they are lighter now than they were under Chiz or Mac. We don't have road-graders. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of perception and faulty memory.
    So what offense do we run with tall skinny guys?


    CFH HMagic bball season next year.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Our base offense

    I say we run goal line offense the whole game or run around like we have no idea what the hell we r doing like back yard ball.



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    Re: Our base offense

    I do think that the spread is not what our team is built for... I think we should run more of a pro style offense, different formations, more effective play action game and use up clock... Even if we run 5 plays and punt at least we didnt do it in 30 seconds and send our poor tired D back out there...



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    Re: Our base offense

    Quote Originally Posted by im4cyclones View Post
    1.) No but there comes a point when you say that we have run I formation, one back sets, even the wishbone under Walden, and the stats look about similar. So what is left?


    i remember a post earlier this fall that looked at our linemen and they are lighter now than they were under Chiz or Mac. We don't have road-graders. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of perception and faulty memory.
    1.)Those stats from the past 10 years did not include many (if any) ISU teams that had their base offense as the I-formation or wishbone...not that those are the only options to choose from. Walden was not even in coaching in those 10 years, so I am very curious as to why you mentioned him. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of perception and faulty memory.

    2.)Did I not post that "the past 3 years". The past 3 years we had the likes of KO, Hicks, Haughton, Stephens, Lamaak, - the definition of road graders. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of perception and faulty memory.



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    Re: Our base offense

    Can some one add 2000 and 2001 when Steve Loney was the o.c.?



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