View Poll Results: Which scoring system is more subjective?

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  • Baseball

    1 2.50%
  • Gymnastics

    17 42.50%
  • Both are subjective

    4 10.00%
  • Neither are subjective

    0 0%
  • Stop wasting my time

    9 22.50%
  • I'm right, and only Communists disagree

    9 22.50%
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  1. #1
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    Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Put your thoughts here or let it die.


    Please and thank you.


    Since we are an elite team now, let's go get that One Cyclone Moment.
    Make this one for the ages!




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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    I think you should have added a poll....

    But I really really like the let it die part.



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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging



    Self proclaimed 2012 CF Newcomer of the Year

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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Gymnastics is more subjective, but not by much when you understand how the scoring actually works.



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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Had to go with the "I'm right, communists disagree" selection. Given the opportunity to reflect, I don't think I have been wrong in several months now. Since my wife left, as a matter of fact!

    Coincidence????



  6. #6
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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Scoring system? Obviously gymnastics. Baseball's scoring system consists of "did that guy touch home plate?"

    If gymnastics wasn't subjective then all the judges should give the same scores all the time.



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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Quote Originally Posted by 3TrueFans View Post
    Scoring system? Obviously gymnastics. Baseball's scoring system consists of "did that guy touch home plate?"

    If gymnastics wasn't subjective then all the judges should give the same scores all the time.
    Gymnastics is more subjective but two umpires never have the same strike zone. Some basketball officials call the game tighter than others. This whole debate is a pointless attempt to explain a ridiculous notion that gymnastics isn't a sport.



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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    Gymnastics is more subjective but two umpires never have the same strike zone. Some basketball officials call the game tighter than others. This whole debate is a pointless attempt to explain a ridiculous notion that gymnastics isn't a sport.
    Yeah there are tons of subjective calls in baseball, but the scoring is very objective.



  9. #9
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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Quote Originally Posted by 3TrueFans View Post
    Yeah there are tons of subjective calls in baseball, but the scoring is very objective.
    The Padres would disagree:

    Ranking the 10 Blindest Umpire Calls in MLB History | Bleacher Report



  10. #10
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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    Well in theory it should be objective, can't account for the fact that umpires are god awful at their jobs. Touch home plate = run.



  11. #11
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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Quote Originally Posted by 3TrueFans View Post
    Well in theory it should be objective, can't account for the fact that umpires are god awful at their jobs. Touch home plate = run.
    I know, I said gymnastics was more subjective but it's not like they're pulling numbers out of their ***.



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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    I know, I said gymnastics was more subjective but it's not like they're pulling numbers out of their ***.
    There are certainly guidelines for gymnastics scoring, I'm not disputing that.



  13. #13
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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Quote Originally Posted by 3TrueFans View Post
    Yeah there are tons of subjective calls in baseball, but the scoring is very objective.
    Subjective calls influence scoring. I'm not sure how subjective gymnastics is because I don't understand the scoring. I saw that yesterday officials went back to a replay and awarded China(?) .7 more points on something and that moved them up from 4th to 2nd for the team medal. That can't be too subjective.



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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    Quote Originally Posted by 3TrueFans View Post
    Yeah there are tons of subjective calls in baseball, but the scoring is very objective.
    It's clear most people have no idea how scoring works in gymnastics when they think it's all subjective. Here's a summary:

    There's two portions of the scoring. One is the skills portion and the other is execution. For the skills portion, judges watch while you do skills. There are official classifications of skills in an official rulebook. Skills are classified as Basic, A, B, C, D, E, F, and G. If you are a judge, you should be able to identify any skill and what classification it belongs to officially. You do not get any points for basic skills. For A skills, you get 0.1 points anytime you complete one in your routine. For B skill, you get 0.2 points, for C it's 0.3 points, and so on. All these points are tallied.

    For example, if you complete 5 D skills, 2 E, 2 C skills, and 2 B, then your score would be 4 (5*0.4 + 2*0.5 + 2*0.3 + 2*0.2) for that portion

    The second portion of the execution phase. You start out with 10 points and then points are subtracted for obvious mistakes. Mistakes could be something like falling off an apparatus which is -1 point, taking a big step on a dismount which is -0.5 points. So pretend you fell off the apparatus once, your dismount had a big step, and you made a few other minor errors like not being straight up when doing a handstand, you would score say 8.2 on this.

    You take the first score, in this case 4, and add to it the second score 8.2, and your final score is 12.2. The reason why there are more than one judge is to rule out in favor of one. Things are happening fast and sometimes you may miss something or misjudge it slightly. If there's 5 judges and 4 of them said "perfect" to a skill and someone said "nope they messed up." Then chances are 4 of them are right and it's going to rule in their favor mathematically.

    If you watch it, you'll notice a "max score" at the beginning of every routine. Gymnasts do not get up there and improvise. They have a routine they do and know exactly which skills there are. The max score is 10 (no mistakes) + sum of all skills hit. This is why you see different max scores for each person, because each person has a different routine with a different set of skills they'll be doing.

    Last night there was instant replay with the Japanese because he messed up on a dismount and the judges ruled that he didn't complete the skill. It happened fast, so it was hard to tell because it was very less than perfect. When they said "this would add 0.7 points onto their total and give them the silver" because the skill he didn't get credit for was a G skill and was worth 0.7 points. They watched it over in slo mo as it's easier to see if he did it or not, much like you'd watch in slo mo to see if you broke the plane of the end zone or whether you beat the shot clock. They figured he did complete the skill and awarded him 0.7 points, the amount for a G skill.


    That's the basics, although there's other rules like getting points for connecting two skills together in one motion and stuff like that (because it's hard, and you're rewarded with points for completing it just like completing a skill).

    To make an analogy. It would be like playing a basketball game. Every bucket is tallied the way it normally is, but then everytime you foul, you get 0.3 points taken off your total. Or in baseball, everytime you bobble a grounder or throw a wild pitch, 0.2 points are taken off your run total.


    People need to stop thinking the scoring is like a dunk contest. It's a hell of a lot more objective than you think. At the end of the day, baseball is more objective, but you still have judging. You have judging in pretty much every competitive sport in some way or another. The closest thing in baseball is a strike zone. It's pretty objective, but sometimes an ump gets it wrong.


    Last edited by marothisu; 07-31-2012 at 03:01 PM.

  15. #15
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    Re: Gymnastics vs. Baseball Scoring/Judging

    I really wanted to read that whole thing.



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